Check out the new Traktor family...

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Originally Posted by Shishdisma

I mean a strIpped down browser/prepare space, rather than just having the full HUD displayed for just setting cue points.

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not really any point. create a layout with decks C+D disabled, no mixer section or effects units visible. sure u have 2 decks displayed and not one - but thats the only difference and not a biggie... hardly worth having a totally separate 'offline' mode anyway. they could always offer a 1 deck layout mode if people thought it was important enough - but i don't really see why.

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I'm surprised more people aren't in favor of a dongle system, considering it's only real disadvantage is a niche, and it paves the way to Advanced HID.

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i can't see any point really in a dongle system - and what in hell does it have to do with "advanced hid"??? nothing special needed for any hid connection. just usb connection (usually) and support for the device in the software itself. nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Shishdisma

Assuming you aren't the only DJ on the lineup, there are around 1 x the number of other DJs in the building. It's actually much easier, since you aren't trying to manage laptops mid-changeover. If your software is license based, and someone else in the venue doesn't happen to have that licence, you're at a serious disadvantage. You can't just pop Traktor onto anything and roll, it has to be a specific laptop. If that specific laptop isn't available, you're fried.

I'm surprised more people aren't in favor of a dongle system, considering it's only real disadvantage is a niche, and it paves the way to Advanced HID.

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I don't know buddy a lot of BOLD assumptions to be making with someone else's computer/software.

1) that they even have SSL installed. Sure its free but they better have it installed. Sure you can install it quick I suppose if you decide to carry around the software with you, or the place has internet, and that DJ is willing to go through all that BS.
2) If they haven't updated their SSL software and you have SSL3 box when they only have maybe updates for say 1 or 2 you are boned.
3) That said DJ will even let you use their computer at all.
4) That you trust that computer enough to play with.

I suppose i can see it pushing Advanced HID for serato if the instances were all as you mentioned, provided the DJ will let you use the laptop AND the CDJS are advanced HID capable.

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Originally Posted by guiltyblade

I suppose i can see it pushing Advanced HID for serato if the instances were all as you mentioned, provided the DJ will let you use the laptop AND the CDJS are advanced HID capable.

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how does it help "advanced hid"? a dongle would be usb i presume and most hid devices are too - so not sure what/where the gain would be.

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Originally Posted by zestoi

anyone know what changed in traktor 2.1.3? just upgraded but couldn't find any info on it and couldn't find the 'search' link on the forum to see if anyone else has mentioned it...

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Pioneer djm850 scratch certification is all if i remember right. No fixes to anything like there was in in 2.1.2.

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Originally Posted by MisterMoleyMole

Pioneer djm850 scratch certification is all if i remember right. No fixes to anything like there was in in 2.1.2.

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ah... shame. cheers for the info tho

First of all, you can install Traktor onto two computers with your current license. So, if your residency happens to have a computer available that you want to use (I'm not sure this would ever happen, but I'll humor you) then you can install Traktor as long as you have an internet connection - makes it pretty equivalent to SSL. Granted that relies on an internet connection; so if you're in a situation where you can't use your own computer, but you can use someone else's, and you happen to have SSL on a USB stick with you along with the current driver updates etc... Then you're better off with Serato. That's a hell of a lot of "ifs and buts" to worry about. You could also carry your laptop with you like any other DJ in the world, and if you need a backup you can still set that up. Nevermind the fact that with this new system, everyone's going to have 2-3 licenses kicking about. Hell, I already have three licenses anyway.

As for HID - Serato isn't manufacturing midi controllers... yet. I won't be surprised to see them or Rane come out with one soon though, and if you want to talk about hardware production encouraging limited competition - the hardware you can use with Serato and Itch is far more locke down than Traktor to begin with. Native also supports HID (though poorly at the moment) with CDJ 2000s, 900s, and 400s, so it's not fully locked down to just the S4. I won't be surprised to see more HID-compatible controllers for Traktor in the future either; the speculation about their trying to lock down HID to NI controllers is just that - speculation.

I can tell you that I'm glad to have access to the full Traktor GUi for setting cue points etc. If you want it slightly more minimized, you can create a layout just for creating cue points if you really want to. If you want to see more of your browser instead, you can click on browser mode or activate it with a midi controller. That said, the GUI for when I'm actually using the software to DJ is much better - the full track stripes are far larger, the waveforms are more useful, the effects aren't just thrown in as an afterthought, looping is much easier to see, and I don't waste half my screen on the browser instead of devoting more of it to useful visual feedback. I own a Traktor setup and an SL3 and I can tell you that i'm going to be selling my SL3 without hesitation. My only concern is CDJ timecode/HID support with Traktor, but I use vinyl anyway (at least until I can afford decent CDJs, possibly indefinitely) so I really don't care.

If we're going to cook up ridiculous hypotheticals though, how about this one... What happens when your Serato card stops working? One deck internal mode? Have fun with that. With Traktor you can use internal mode fully functionally with any soundcard. I also use an X1 in my setup, so if I want a backup I can just map that to control the mixer in midi mode.

The dongle system has its advantages, but they're few and far between. With TP2 licenses now looking like they're going to be ubiquitous, the argument is pretty much invalid. The only issue at this point is with Service Center needing to be hooked up to the internet, but that just means you can't grab someone's laptop out of the crowd and start DJing with it. I'm okay with that. The dongle has literally nothing to do with HID as well - the problem you're referencing is that NI manufacture hardware midi controllers, not that the program has a license.

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Originally Posted by zestoi

not really any point. create a layout with decks C+D disabled, no mixer section or effects units visible. sure u have 2 decks displayed and not one - but thats the only difference and not a biggie... hardly worth having a totally separate 'offline' mode anyway. they could always offer a 1 deck layout mode if people thought it was important enough - but i don't really see why.



i can't see any point really in a dongle system - and what in hell does it have to do with "advanced hid"??? nothing special needed for any hid connection. just usb connection (usually) and support for the device in the software itself. nothing more.

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The point is that I dont have to deal with that, there's just a playhead with loop/cue indicators and controls. I can't do that in Traktor no matter how you set it up.

Advanced HID gives CDJs a better than timecode functionality, and bypasses the Traktor Audio cards. Native sells hardware, they don't make any money when they update software without an accompanying piece of hardware. Native can't make money off of Advanced HID without having an audio interface linked to it, like how Serato runs, thus, Native has no reason to invest in HID while they're the ones trying to sell their interfaces. Native's competition with Advanced HID platforms is Traktor Scratch, thus pushing in HID developments would literally be coding their own competitors, similar to how only their controllers have access to the NHL protocol.

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Originally Posted by Shishdisma

The point is that I dont have to deal with that, there's just a playhead with loop/cue indicators and controls. I can't do that in Traktor no matter how you set it up.

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personal preference i guess but i'm with keeb that i'd *rather* have more of the gui open when setting up cue points etc.

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Advanced HID gives CDJs a better than timecode functionality, and bypasses the Traktor Audio cards. Native sells hardware, they don't make any money when they update software without an accompanying piece of hardware. Native can't make money off of Advanced HID without having an audio interface linked to it, like how Serato runs, thus, Native has no reason to invest in HID while they're the ones trying to sell their interfaces. Native's competition with Advanced HID platforms is Traktor Scratch, thus pushing in HID developments would literally be coding their own competitors, similar to how only their controllers have access to the NHL protocol.

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ok... so by "Advanced HID" u just mean "HID" :p NI also make money of selling upgrades - i presume if/when TP3 comes out it won't be free. and they are investing in hid with their own controllers (and not just for TSP) and hopefully they'll provide better hid support for cdj's sometime soon. either way this all has bugger all to do with your argument for dongles. i do like the word "dongle" tho - it amuses me :)

and u band about "Advanced HID" along with "NHL"... ofc they are both just "hid". how "advanced" u want to make any "hid" interface is up the the controller and features ofc.

A week ago I bought a second hand x1 ( bought for a store on 12 February 2010)
The LE license wasn't used from the original buyer, so, does it means that if I registered it today, I'll receive a tp2 serial? Or should I wait to register it?

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Originally Posted by zestoi

personal preference i guess but i'm with keeb that i'd *rather* have more of the gui open when setting up cue points etc.



ok... so by "Advanced HID" u just mean "HID" :p NI also make money of selling upgrades - i presume if/when TP3 comes out it won't be free. and they are investing in hid with their own controllers (and not just for TSP) and hopefully they'll provide better hid support for cdj's sometime soon. either way this all has bugger all to do with your argument for dongles. i do like the word "dongle" tho - it amuses me :)

and u band about "Advanced HID" along with "NHL"... ofc they are both just "hid". how "advanced" u want to make any "hid" interface is up the the controller and features ofc.

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True, the option of simplicity would help Traktor though, it just depends on how you like to work.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying about Advanced HID. Traktor supports HID on CDJs, it's just that the normal HID protocol sucks ass, and you're much better off using time codes (and Native's hardware). If Advanced HID was implemented, which would be totally awesome and is a much better experience with much more feedback being displayed at a much smoother rate, it would effectively kill time codes with CDJs. Since HID doesn't require a certified sound card, Native wouldn't make any money at all off of implementing it. Serato requires an SLx no matter what you run, so Serato isn't effected in the slightest by what method you run your sound with, since it has to go though the licensed hardware dongle either way.

If TP3 included AHID, Native would effectively be signing the death warrant for their timecode hardware, and as weve seen today, and the entire point of the move Native's making, the hardware is what makes the money in the long run. The short term profits of TP3 wouldn't match the losses they'd take by bypassing their own soundcards. Native holds all the cards, and has to paly them to their advantage.