WHY do so many people here use and suggest the S2/S4??

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08-07-2012, 11:25 PM
rotebass

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saurus

I did recommend several controllers. Twice now you've failed at reading my posts and thrown a useless, personally-targetted argument out there with no data to support your silliness, and made an ass out of yourself. Could you please post-stalk me and disagree with everything i say so I look better? :thumbup:

Maybe if you didn't write the biggest TL;DR post ever :thumbup:

Too bad about your sig. other though... :lol:
08-08-2012, 12:15 AM
Shishdisma

As a former owner of an S4, and the current owner of a pair of CDJ-2000s and a DJM-2000, I really don't understand how anyone can think of an S4 as "toylike." Maybe it's got something to do with old hat morons and reviewers who think anything less than 40lbs and made of steel won't last, but of all the complaints I have with the S series, durability and build quality is definitely not one of them. The OP is essentially a misinformed stream of FUD and prejudice, especially considering Pio jogs have the same style of pressure-sensitivity. If you want to get into the subtleties of the buttons, sure, but the fact of the matter is that with bolted metal stems, magnetic jogs, smooth, short body faders, and uncrackable buttons, the S series is here to stay.

Despite my serious misgivings with the controllers, there's no other controller I'd touch over an NI knob-box if I was going to go back to the abomination that is Traktor. Anyone who has any complaints, especially outward complaints, about the build quality is just paranoid or stupid.

And L oh fucking L at people recommending the 4trak over the S series, now I know whos just a paranoid old hat who gets off to hardware wrapped in steel. These same people would probably recommend a beat to shit M3D or an M5G over a TTX or super OEM because of "legacy and reliability" or something equally paranoid. The 4trak is an abominable pile of poor build quality design decisions, let's be real here: Numark had a good design philosophy with the NS7, and then when they built the NS6/4trak, they just thought "hmmm... Should we use the awesome buttons we custom made for the NS7, or those shitty buttons we put on our old NDX players that felt like crap and cracked all the time? Let's go with the NDX." Add that to the plastic pots, sandy feeling faders, and poorly mounted jogs, and you've got nothing but a metal case.
08-08-2012, 12:22 AM
Saurus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommi Bass

Mr Golden cannot map talent for you.

I have my doubts that he can even map talent for himself... He's a damn talented performer, but his staff seems to do all of the mapping for him at this point....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj matt blaze

I felt the same way about the toyish feel of the S4 when I tried it out. There was something about it that I just didn't like. I ended up with a Xone DX. It has since been discontinued, not because of build quality or there being anything wrong with the controller except maybe the jog wheels not being touch sensitive or too small for some people but because of pricing. It was priced a little high at $1200 when it first came out and it was touted as a 4 deck controller for Itch when Itch first came out. I got it about a year ago for $600 and it works and intergrates perfectly with Traktor. You can probably still buy a new one or get it used for $600 or less. Built like a tank, 20 channel soundcard, can't go wrong.

I do also own maschine andI think its a great piece of gear and I also own an audio 6 and think its great as well. So NI isn't all that bad.

That's actually a totally badass-looking piece of kit that I've never even heard of somehow... Except for no touch jogs, which I could get over, and only four cue points... I'd fuckin LOVE that thing if I were still into all-in-ones. Wish I'd picked that up originally instead of my S4. Damn. Also, yeah, the NI sound cards are pretty good. The maschine is still somewhat low-build quality for it's price, but nowhere near the atrocities of the S2/S4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotebass

Maybe if you didn't write the biggest TL;DR post ever :thumbup:

Don't reply critically to shit you don't read, and you won't look like a dubass, champ! :thumbup1:
08-08-2012, 12:34 AM
Saurus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shishdisma

As a former owner of an S4, and the current owner of a pair of CDJ-2000s and a DJM-2000, I really don't understand how anyone can think of an S4 as "toylike." Maybe it's got something to do with old hat morons and reviewers who think anything less than 40lbs and made of steel won't last, but of all the complaints I have with the S series, durability and build quality is definitely not one of them. The OP is essentially a misinformed stream of FUD and prejudice, especially considering Pio jogs have the same style of pressure-sensitivity. If you want to get into the subtleties of the buttons, sure, but the fact of the matter is that with bolted metal stems, magnetic jogs, smooth, short body faders, and uncrackable buttons, the S series is here to stay.

Despite my serious misgivings with the controllers, there's no other controller I'd touch over an NI knob-box if I was going to go back to the abomination that is Traktor. Anyone who has any complaints, especially outward complaints, about the build quality is just paranoid or stupid.

And L oh fucking L at people recommending the 4trak over the S series, now I know whos just a paranoid old hat who gets off to hardware wrapped in steel. These same people would probably recommend a beat to shit M3D or an M5G over a TTX or super OEM because of "legacy and reliability" or something equally paranoid. The 4trak is an abominable pile of poor build quality design decisions, let's be real here: Numark had a good design philosophy with the NS7, and then when they built the NS6/4trak, they just thought "hmmm... Should we use the awesome buttons we custom made for the NS7, or those shitty buttons we put on our old NDX players that felt like crap and cracked all the time? Let's go with the NDX." Add that to the plastic pots, sandy feeling faders, and poorly mounted jogs, and you've got nothing but a metal case.

I.... What.... Sir, I rarely say this.... But you seem to just have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever.

First off. I'm new-school-as-fuck, not some "old-hat". The S4 was my second DJ controller ever. I know all of what I know about gear through playing around with other artists' gear.

Next, your rant about build quality is... I'm blown away. I find it hard to believe that you've ever touched an S4, and I'm not sure you know much about DJ equipment at all. "smooth, short body faders"? You have a DJM-2000, and you think the S4 faders are smooth??? I'm calling shenanigans here, sir. Either you don't own a DJM-2000, or you've never used an S4. Further, "short-bodied"? Are you claiming that the pitch faders being short is a good thing? Now I'm questioning if you're even a DJ.

Bolted metal stems are pretty much standard, I don't know many controllers that don't have them, and they're hardly something to brag about. "uncrackable buttons"? Really...? How-the-fuck often do buttons crack on controllers.... WTF?

And the jogs, as we've previously covered are not the same as on a CDJ 2000 AT ALL.

The design for the 4-track is fucking great, I dunno wtf you're on about. I'm assuming you just don't use most of the controls it offers in your workflow, if you were able to switch to CDJs and a mixer. Also, you've made it clear that you've never touched one... The build quality is at least fairly good.... And MILES beyond the S4. Those buttons arent amazing, but they're, again, MILES beyond the S4 buttons.

Honestly... The only thing I can think of that would spawn this ill-informed silliness you just spouted is can be summed up with.... "Nice try, Native Instruments"
08-08-2012, 12:54 AM
Shishdisma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saurus

I.... What.... Sir, I rarely say this.... But you seem to just have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever.

First off. I'm new-school-as-fuck, not some "old-hat". The S4 was my second DJ controller ever. I know all of what I know about gear through playing around with other artists' gear.

Next, your rant about build quality is... I'm blown away. I find it hard to believe that you've ever touched an S4, and I'm not sure you know much about DJ equipment at all. "smooth, short body faders"? You have a DJM-2000, and you think the S4 faders are smooth??? I'm calling shenanigans here, sir. Either you don't own a DJM-2000, or you've never used an S4. Further, "short-bodied"? Are you claiming that the pitch faders being short is a good thing? Now I'm questioning if you're even a DJ.

Apparently you've never touched a DJM-2000, the faders aren't that incredible, and aren't anything above Pioneer's usual fader quality. They're actually very similar to the S4s faders, short body faders with no rails. They trade a tiny bit of wobble for not having that plastic feel to them, but both of them are rather smooth. The 2000s faders aren't like the Nexus, they don't have rails, and thus feel like most short body faders out there, and the S4's aren't scratchy at all, but have a bit of a plasticly feel.

Apparently you don't know the difference between "short body" and "short throw," the later being the length of the fader, and the former being the depth of the fader body, usually translating to the weight of the fader. Both the 2000 and the S4 have short body faders, some of the smallest faders available, the difference being that the S4 has a slight plastic feel to them. Both have similar amounts of weight.

Bolted metal stems are pretty much standard, I don't know many controllers that don't have them, and they're hardly something to brag about. "uncrackable buttons"? Really...? How-the-fuck often do buttons crack on controllers.... WTF?

If you've ever used Numark's NDX/4trak buttons, you'd see it happen all the time. Hard plastic buttons that aren't constructed well have a tendency to get launched into the floor or snapped in half when being hammered on by DJs every night. That's why you usually see rubberized buttons, or Pioneer sytle over engineered plastic switches. Fun fact: the 4Trak has plastic stems, and horrendous faders

And the jogs, as we've previously covered are not the same as on a CDJ 2000 AT ALL.

It's the same technology, no matter how much you scream, even if the S4's travel is a bit longer than the Pioneer's, touch sensitive jogs are kind of a joke

The design for the 4-track is fucking great, I dunno wtf you're on about. I'm assuming you just don't use most of the controls it offers in your workflow, if you were able to switch to CDJs and a mixer. Also, you've made it clear that you've never touched one... The build quality is at least fairly good.... And MILES beyond the S4. Those buttons arent amazing, but they're, again, MILES beyond the S4 buttons.

Like I said above, it doesn't have the "industry standard" metal stems, and has some of the worst faders I've ever felt on a piece of hardware. It's crossfader is Numark's midrange fader, that should give you a clue. And it's switches are exactly the same as the shittastic NDX series, which was famous for launching cue switches through the floor, or microswitches going out. The only thing it has is a metal case, and that's completely useless

Honestly... The only thing I can think of that would spawn this ill-informed silliness you just spouted is can be summed up with.... "Nice try, Native Instruments"

Nice try, I actually don't like NI at all, but I see their place in the market.

This text is because vbulletin is dumb
08-08-2012, 01:43 AM
synthet1c

If you want to use a controller to scratch with in traktor you have to use an S2/4... That is the way traktor was designed, It is unlikely that it would be optimised for any other controller without large kickbacks to NI... As always VDJ is better suited to controllerism anyway and you can use any controller in full resolution, even NHL protocol if you can figure it out...
08-08-2012, 04:48 AM
tekki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saurus

[..]

Also, several people are talking on both sides about build quality. It's not just how long it lasts, it's also how it feels while you use it. My S4's broken SEVERAL times in SEVERAL different ways because of the terrible build quality.... but just as importantly, it's also felt like a stupid little toy the entire time. It's also caused me tons of "f--- ups" when mixing, because of the shitty buttons not pressing like they should, the fader caps flying off mid-throw, and the "touch" system for the jogwheels being a complete joke.
[..]

Just because of the furious way your trying to make your point, I would be more keen on trying the S4, than to stay away from it.
If a controller/mixer or any kind of player causes you to make misstakes more often, you should change the way you're handling your music and players, or go for another controller or player.

"Be careful crap"?

Sure, it just goes to show the way of appreciating/respecting your gear.

If you cannot respect/appreciate your 900 dollars/euros worth gear(S4), that you'd rather keep on abusing it in stead of just handling it, then this will result in breaking down on you.
You will probably keep on encountering gear being wrecked.

Trust me if I say that switches and rotaries won't turn/switch any better when you flick them at full strength in stead of using appropriate strength.
08-08-2012, 06:44 AM
Bhajan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJKyleHughes

mind if I sig this?

Agreed. The only time during this thread I just had to effin' bust up laughing..

:lol:
08-08-2012, 07:28 AM
RockingClub

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saurus

[...]

Also, several people are talking on both sides about build quality. It's not just how long it lasts, it's also how it feels while you use it. My S4's broken SEVERAL times in SEVERAL different ways because of the terrible build quality.... but just as importantly, it's also felt like a stupid little toy the entire time. It's also caused me tons of "fuck ups" when mixing, because of the shitty buttons not pressing like they should, the fader caps flying off mid-throw, and the "touch" system for the jogwheels being a complete joke.

[...]

I feel there's something wrong with the person standing behind your gear... :glare:

"Shitty buttons not pressing like they should"?! Never heard such a piece of s***!
08-08-2012, 07:32 AM
Jack Bastard

My S4 owning mate is the only person I know to have had to send his back for repair twice due to faults, which could just be bad luck but could also be worth bearing in mind.

Note that he didn't damage it either time and NI didn't quibble with the repair.

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