Forbes Article - "How Hard is DJing?"

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Originally Posted by tokenasianguy

I can't help but scoff when DJ's talk about how much skill it takes to mix. I don't even factor "track selection" because every DJ thinks they have the best track selection.

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I kinda agree with you....I'm an open format DJ. Live in Miami and have played in some decent spots down here. This passed Saturday I played main set at a Club, the resident DJ opened and closed for me. This guy is there every weekend and keeps the place in business. He can def. mix two tracks together and can select the right songs --- but the difference in DJing was HUGE when he was on, and my set. My Energy was better, I had better songs selections, better open format ride from genre to genre, etc....but this guy is not bad. He can mix tracks as good as anyone (he played on CD's, I played on SSL) and he's good enough to be there every week. But the difference in us two was pretty big. So I ask, if it's NOT song selection then what is it? Because when it comes down to the basics he and I are equally skilled.

She probably plays dubstep at 140BPM... what a newb lolol

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Originally Posted by tokenasianguy

How do you distinguish "mixing at a professional level" from mixing at an amateur level? Trainwrecking? If not trainwrecking then anything else would be totally ambiguous and subjective.

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If you seriously need to ask that question then your probably at armature level.

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Originally Posted by haze324

I kinda agree with you....I'm an open format DJ. Live in Miami and have played in some decent spots down here. This passed Saturday I played main set at a Club, the resident DJ opened and closed for me. This guy is there every weekend and keeps the place in business. He can def. mix two tracks together and can select the right songs --- but the difference in DJing was HUGE when he was on, and when I came on. Energy, better songs selections, better open format ride from genre to genre, etc....but this guy IS good. He can mix tracks as good as anyone (he played on CD's, I played on SSL) and he's good enough to be there every week. So I ask, if it's NOT song selection then what is it? Because when it comes down to the basics he and I are equally skilled.

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He is established in the scene, you said it yourself. It sounds like if you keep doing what you're doing then you will have the same advantage soon.

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Originally Posted by sobi

Actually, I did. Care to tell me about more personal life experiences that I must have imagined?

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You know, If you actually read the "blah blah" you'd have understood my point; you admitted yourself it actually took you the better part of a year to learn to do this right, not a few hours. Like I said, it's a motor skill, not something you just learn intellectually. Which you already seem to know based on the rest of your posts (which I actually read). It seems we actually agree on these things and I'm not trying to call your life experience into question (seriously, wtf?), so lighten up.

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Originally Posted by tokenasianguy

In terms of your "chord" metaphor, do you think if you gave two different DJ's the same list of tracks to play in the same order, that they could make the sets sound distinctly different? Because I'm very skeptical about that, but I'm also inclined to say it doesn't matter that much.

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I actually hear this sometimes, when someone is going to mix two tracks or even play a track I have. I know this break down is going to kill the energy and am going to loop the hook for 16 beats to play thru it to keep the energy going or start to mix differently using a track as bridge between the weak break down and the storming rest of the groove. If you give me 10 tracks and someone else the same, we are going to program them different, mix with different styles and over all come up with different results. I'm not going to quantify that one is better than the other in a hypothetical, but frequently even the site here runs a contest with the same songs or samples to do what the contestant wants and comes up with a "winner".

Ugh... I missed same order... but I think it differs. I know my mixing style is different than some peoples, and some peoples are similar but over all still I think you get different results.

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Originally Posted by tokenasianguy

In terms of DJ sets, how do you quantify "mistakes"? I would assume if a set is programmed in software that it would be flawless. This illustrates one of my gripes about the DJ scene back when I was immersed in it. Since house DJ's far and wide were only known for "flawless mixing" and "track selection", it seemed like people would always critique those elements and would take about "mistakes" in a set...When really, what is a mistake? Isn't that as subjective as "track selection"? Unless of course you're talking about a trainwreck, which is glaringly obvious.

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you really don't know how mistakes can be quantified outside of trainwrecks in djing? no, they aren't as subjective as track selection, but wrong track selection could very well be a mistake that's not subjective. there are clearly times when a track comes in that might be a different genre and the energy is noticeably either too high or low, that's a mistake. when the phrasing is off, that's a mistake. when the key is clashing, that's a mistake. when 2 basslines are playing at the same time and sound odd, that's a mistake. when you are playing on cdjs/vinyl and the track goes out of sync for a moment, that's mistake. if you didn't pre grid your tracks and it happens with software too, that's a mistake. when a loop gets botched, that's a mistake. when you don't get your eq or get your levels spot on, that's a mistake. now, some of these mistakes are going to be subtle and most normal (non djs) won't even begin to notice them, but they are almost always there and very few live sets are flawless as you state. are these little mistakes acceptable to nearly everyone? sure. in fact i usually enjoy hearing them because it puts a human quality on something that everyone thinks can be perfected in 1 day lately. i've heard sasha trainwreck a transition while he was using ableton. sasha! ableton! trainwreck! is that a common occurrence for him? probably not but we are only humans and we will always make mistakes.

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In terms of your "chord" metaphor, do you think if you gave two different DJ's the same list of tracks to play in the same order, that they could make the sets sound distinctly different? Because I'm very skeptical about that, but I'm also inclined to say it doesn't matter that much.

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well, that's not exactly what i was getting at but i'll answer your devil's advocate question anyhow. yes i think they could make the sets sound distinctly different. creative people will always find ways to get the results they are looking for. will you have a bunch of times where 2 different people make a very similar set because you told them a specific order? sure. it just depends on the dj. what it's more equal to is giving them a same set of tracks and let them do what they want with no restrictions. some people will remix, some people will mashup, some people will quick mix, some people will mix in more of a "standard" way, and track orders will be different to various degrees. the point is, there will be variety and yes it does matter to some people, even if not to you. if you want to get into what matters and doesn't in the grand scale of the universe, time and everything...well, not much we do really matters if you start going far enough.

if you gave musicians the same set of 10 chords to use, they will surely come up with different things as it's not as constrictive as djing pre made tracks together. there are all types of instruments they can use, different tempos, different patterns, different rhythms. i was just trying to break it down to its simplest form to show some similarities and explain why i won't talk a grip of shit to people about how they should be flawless in beatmatching and learning how to dj in a week. just some food for thought.

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Originally Posted by sobi

I think I'm being misunderstood. I'm not trying to say my experience is normal. I was an exception rather than the rule. That being said, I see it as something that can be mastered more or less in a year or two. MASTERED. Compare that to say playing guitar, or any instrument. I just see it as a skill that can be learned to a high level substantially faster than most any other musical hobby.

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if that's how you feel then we did misunderstand you because to me it didn't come off that way in your posts. i agree that most people can become very good at something in 2 years with daily practice (and djing probably would be faster than learning guitar in the same amount of time), but i hesitate to throw the word MASTER around (especially in all caps like that). i would disagree and i think that even people who you think have mastered something would have a hard time calling themselves a master of their skillset. since no human is perfect there is always room for us to grow and become better at our crafts of choice. hell, even as people. i've been alive for 33 years and i haven't mastered anything in life and i think most other people don't have the skill or determination to either.

at the end of the day everyone learns and works a bit differently. some people may be able to learn playing guitar faster and better than djing, some the other way around. in any case, it's just a little disheartening to hear all of the negativity surrounding djing and how easy it is for anyone to learn to be consistently good within 3 hours, because that just isn't case 99.9% of the time.

^this guy gets it