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Is it possible to change the key of a track in Traktor? I read about this in a reference to something, so I'm not sure if this is what the guy was talking about, and I've also never seen anyone use this before.
I try and mix harmonically when I can, and I use Mixed in Key. This would be an amazing feature if it actually exists.
-PL>Y
It totally does! :-D If you have the full internal mixer showing, there are key 'rotaries' that you can lock/adjust. It's very good in my opinion if you computer can handle the 'high quality' processing. I use it all the time :)
How does it work? Does Traktor analyze the key of the track and display that information?
Just make sure you don't go beyond 1.74% in pitch, otherwise your tracks will lack punch when playing in keylock.
It does not display it in terms of readable text, I have my track info show the key (after RE or MiK adds it to comments tag, so comments technically) and you have to make fine tuned adjustments to the key until it sounds right. Key lock only really works for when you're changing the tempo
+1 to Tekki's post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekki
So when you're using what I now understand is a pitch adjust (am I right?), do you have keylock on at all times?
If that's the case, are you also using Mixed in Key? And if so, are you doing any calculations to figure out how much to pitch adjust one track to match the other?
-PL>Y
First find the key of your track. Mixed in Key does this, but I would check the key with a synth to make sure it is right. Once all your tracks have the Key info tagged then you can use that info to mix harmonically.
Then for each musical 1/2 step you want to change a song, you will move the key knob (not the pitch fader) 1 full increment. (1.00, 2.00, etc.) (with Keylock on)
Example: C to C# is one musical 1/2 step. If one song is in C and you want to mix in a song that is in C# then you would turn on key lock and move the key knob to -1 for the song in C# to change it to C which matches the first song.
If you are unfamiliar with musical 1/2 steps, you can google it and learn the steps between notes on the chromatic scale. OR make a chart. In general #(sharp) is a 1/2 step higher and b(flat) is a 1/2 step lower. the scale goes like this....
C |C#| D| D#(Eb)| E| F| F#(Gb)| G| G#(Ab)| A| A#(Bb)| B| C
Musical distance between each note is a 1/2 step. So C to D# is 3 half steps apart and you would change the Key knob to 3 on the track in C to have it match the one in D#, or change the key knob to -3 for the song in D# to match the one in C.
Notice the 2 exceptions to the 1/2 step being #/b is between E and F, & B and C. As in you will not have and E# or Fb nor a B# or Cb.
Music Theory class has ended, on to your next class, not loitering in the halls.
Sorry, but how would this relate to the figure 1.74%? I haven't had the opportunity to play with Traktor yet, I'm just trying to learn the theory. So does the pitch adjust control move in increments of musical steps, or in increments as shown as a percentage?
All the 1.74% is about, is if you change the key of your track by more than 2-3 increments on the key knob, the change to the song will make it sound thin. So even though you can change the key alot with the key knob, you shouldn't change it more than 2-3 increments.
The knob itself reads in decimal places 0.0-0.01-0.02---0.99-1.00-1.01 etc. So if say a song in the key of A is slightly different (flat or sharp) from another song in the key of A, then you can tune them to match.
Does anyone know the math/science behind this, and want to explain this a little?
I would love to know the underlying science here.
There's a numerical explanation to it in the same way that there's a numerical explanation to beatmatching.
And as with beatmatching, doing it by ear is a lot more efficient than dialing it in with math.
And of course, synced beatmatching is far more efficient than by ear. I can see automated keymatching being a feature of forthcoming DJing software in the next five years in the same way that beat sync-ing was introduced many years ago.
Hope I'm not made a liar of.
For those of you using changing keys in Traktor, what do you have your knobs set at? I mean, the rotary sens. and accel.? I tried messing with it but would like each "click" of my knob to be a nice 1/2 step increment...can't figure that out yet...
Yeah, I spent a lot of time trying to map an incrementation that made logical musical sense with the sensitivity/acceleration, but after a certain amount of dicking around with that I found it a lot easier to just use my ears and do it like tuning a guitar.
Basically gently tweak the knob until it sounds like it fits. Yeah, I know, really good explanation.
That is nowhere near a good articulation of how to manually key your blends, but enough playing around with it in your bedroom will teach you how to nail it. It's like beatmatching, you just develop your ear after a lot of practice.
If you can tell the difference between a higher/lower and sharp/flat pitch, you will learn how to do it very quickly. I feel that applies to most of you guys on this forum.
Someone mentioned a few posts up that going beyond a discrete point on the knob will kill your track's dynamics. That shit is real and will seriously let the air out of your tires in a very noticeable way.
I kind of have a feeling that manually keying tracks is one of those next-level things in mixing. Looking forward to hearing this in peoples' sets in the future!
Being able to change the key of tracks even just 3 musical half steps is a big plus when mixing, mashing, and doing a controllerism routine. Why? Let's say you are playing a song in the key of C, so mixing harmonically, your next song should be in C, G, F, or Am.
Out of (imaginary number) 100 songs that are close enough in BPM to the track playing to mix in well, only 15 of them are in keys matching the ones that will mix harmonically. Using the key knob to change the other 85 songs keys, you would increase the number of possible songs to mix in to 30 or more. This number mainly depends upon how many songs (out of the 100) are in a major or minor key, because 3 musical half steps from C, G, F, or AM is pretty much the whole chromatic scale.(all the notes on a keyboard black and white)
If this all sounds greek to you, start by learning the Camelot system of harmonic mixing which was designed for DJ's.
Basic music theory is also very good to know. Major and Minor scales, chromatic scale, and basic chord progressions(which is the Camelot system actually). You may not be playing an instrument, but you are playing music, right?
On getting the Key to change an exact amount, I ended up mapping some keys to do it exactly. If I remember right moving the mouse left to right changes amounts slower than up and down.
The tuning method is ok, but if you learn the distance between notes, and already have your song's key information, you can do it instantly. Example: Song is in D I need it to be in C (2 musical 1/2 steps lower)so I move the key knob to -2. Done.
Harmonic mixing is not really next level as far as I can tell. I'm fairly new to DJ'n, but an old musician. Seems like DJ's have been harmonically mixing for many years now, from what I have read. Many were probably doing it with out knowing, just playing what sounded good. Now many DJ's use Mixed in Key software to get the key info and embed it into the track's info, and have learned what keys mix well( Camelot system), and have learned the distances between musical notes. So when mixing it would literally only take a second or 2 to manually change the key of a song to harmonically mix with another.
Hope I'm not just adding mud to the murky water here, lol.
I am a musician from way back too, and am not even going to bother with a Camelot Wheel or some number system when I understand music theory like the back of my hand. I am just curious how, other than a trained ear, you use the key and a spare knob in traktor to move up and down the scale certain intervals, most likely half steps. I am getting odd percentages, like .15 and cannot tell if what degree of scale change I am getting.
I hear you about the camelot system and feel the same way. That part of the post was for people with no music theory knowledge.
The Key knob in Traktor adjusts from -12.00 to +12.00. Each full 1.00 increment on the knob is a semitone (or 1/2 step). So the song's origional key is when the knob is at 0.00(C major for example). To change the key to a semitone higher (C# major) you would move the knob to the right (clockwise) to 1.00. So any increment in between 0.00 and 1.00 would be out of tune (flat). But, because many factors come into play about the exact pitch a song has, the ability to adjust the pitch in increments smaller than a 1/2 step (like tuning instruments together) is important.
That being said, I find that almost every time just going to the correct whole increment on the knob(or as close as I can get) works perfectly. This may be less reliable on older tracks when they used tuning forks, a piano,etc to tune their instruments, but I haven't really paid attention to it.
Since you are a musician, think of it like PartyMcFly does. Like a guitar string's tuning knob. Except this one has a digital read out. So if you know exactly(or almost) where to to turn the knob to be in tune because of the read out, why wouldn't you just turn it till the read out showed you were in the right spot. That's why you can just make the change and be fairly sure it will be correct.
I don't know why, but I can only get the knob to stop at .99 or 1.08 with the mouse, never 1.00. Similar problem when mapped to a knob. Even after playing around with rotary sensitivity etc. So I ended up mapping buttons to do it exactly. But, you can get by with the knob being slightly off. If you need to go up 1.00 on the knob, 1.08 or .99 is so close it won't sound out of tune. So if you need to go up a whole step (C to D for example) you would need to be as close to 2.00 as you can get.
Thank you for that, exactly what I wanted to know!
Yeah. Mixed In Key and the Camelot numbering scheme is pretty much standard kit for a lot of guys I know locally and around various DJ forums. And DJs have been blending keys for a long time before MIK came along, I'm sure. There's nothing really new going on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanGogo
But think of what phase and beat sync did for beatmatching.
Twisting that key knob to tune your blends when the recording's native key does not harmonize might be able to be automated by software like Traktor in the future to even take that out of the "tedious things DJ's do" list. That's the next level we're talking about here.
You R welcome!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryz
I understand what you are talking about Partmcfly, some where, some one is working on this as we discuss it here.
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I just googled Key Change in Traktor and this thread was the most helpful and I saw this unanswered question.
The difference between a key/scale is doubling or halving the frequency.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRESSPL>Y
Increasing an octave (say, from C1 to C2) is doubling.
Decreasing an octave (say from C2 to C1) is halving.
And the difference between notes is a discrete increment change in frequency. between an octave, the frequencies have been split into 12 notes, this is arbitrary and is just what what determined a long time ago.
There is a very large number of discrete frequencies between what we call an octave, so much so that it bending the pitch of an instrument sounds continuous (but cant be continuous in accordance with modern particle physics).
Traktor is doing that when it changes the Key BUT if it did it simply by changing the frequency then the track would also increase/decrease in length (ie, pitch control).
So to achieve constant tempo/bpm with change in key (or change in temp with a cosntant key, ie Key Lock) the sound wave has to oscillate between the new frequency and blank space, so as to maintain the overall time taken for the waves to be produced - they are crammed into or drawn out the same space.
I don't work for NI so I don't know exactly how they do that, but you can check youtube physics lectures on waves that show how it works.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../250px-Ear.jpg
Why would you want to change the key of a song that someone has spent ages making???
Play it as it should be played - if its too slow/fast play something else...
LISTEN to your songs ffs
Beatgrid, sync, key, what next - little Jesus dolls doing it for ya