I know that there have been other threads/articles on this debate but since the s4 came out(the 1st 4-channel controller), I would like to see what would you vote internal or external and a small justification.:)
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I know that there have been other threads/articles on this debate but since the s4 came out(the 1st 4-channel controller), I would like to see what would you vote internal or external and a small justification.:)
external all the way, well for me anyway. i prefer to use a proper mixer with a proper eq etc...
If you plan on playing out then external :
Better EQs and faders (generally)
Better sound quality
Portability.
Half of the functions mapped to a VCI-100 or an S4 aren't going to be used in the real world by 90pct of the people that buy them and get the opportunity to use them in a club environment IMO.
external+100000
just a much better warmer sound from the eqs
External. There is no controller that feels as good to use as even some mid-level mixers. Plus, there may be less stuff to have to find places for if you're using 1 or 2 X1s or something as opposed to something that's bigger than a CDJ.
IDK…I just never really considered just an all-in-one.
On what functions you are refering to?:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyboy
Based on my personal experience, I agree with this. Although, I haven't gotten my fingers on the S4 yet. Wonder if its haptics are on par with my external mixer of choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
But when thinking exclusively about sound quality, I prefer internal mixing. This is a very subjective thing, though. Basically, you gotta try it for yourself. I can understand why some people like the phat sound of, say, Rane mixers. The heavy bass works well in a club. But I just don't find it sounds as clean and crisp as Traktor's internal mixer.
Is it possible for someone wo has the s4 to share with us his internal mixing experience?
I mix internally myself and rather enjoy it. When ever I play out I never have to worry about what kind of gear they have as long as I have an open channel on the mixer to plug into.
And while I don't think there is much sound quality lost as people make it seem, I have noticed when using the EQs it's bit harsh when you have EQ at 7 o'clock (kill) and then trying to bring it in gently, it's just a bit jarring for that one moment, but you find ways around it.
I prefer external just because midi controllers tend to feel cheap and horrible to use in comparison to a mixer of similar price. Cheap plasticy knobs that don't click in the middle- urgh.
Mathematically, you're right, based on everything I've seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdidum
While it's possible to clip your sound card (in fact, it's really easy), it's basically not possible to clip traktor's mixer, no matter what stupid settings you use. And you don't lose anything to cheap or worn-out circuitry or cheap components, 'cuz it's just math.
I still maintain that I don't like the sound of the Classic EQ (rolloff is too quick at the top and it boosts too much), the controller I'm using doesn't have knobs for the xone EQ (I suppose I could map both of the mid controls to one knob…I'll have to try that), and the Nuo one sounds off to me. I don't hate it, but I don't like it…so I'm stuck using the p600 EQ for the time being, despite the fact that it sounds only a bit less off than the others and is still too sharp close to 0dB and still boosts too much.
I can't wait until I can afford my Empath, so I can get back to mixing with a real mixer. I didn't miss having a real mixer so much with Ableton Live (because it's EQs are great and the VCM feels almost as nice to use as a lot of real mixers), but I really miss it with Traktor…there's not a mixer-like controller with the right set of controls for my taste. The VCI feels decent, but I'd ignore most of it…just like I ignored most of my VCM-600 using Traktor.
I guess the core of it is that I haven't found a good 2 or 4-channel mixer-only controller for Traktor that feels solid and isn't ridiculously overkill for what I want, whereas there are a LOT of actual mixers that sound great (if you understand anything about leveling), some of which have the same type of digital processing that make it virtually impossible to clip anything but the final D-A converter. Even going 100% analog, a lot of them have a lot of extra headroom, making that less of a benefit to digital…and they all are laid out better than all but the best controllers, which include a lot of crap I wouldn't use.
That's why I like external mixing for Traktor.
Because that was a long and rambling post, here's a picture of a kitten hugging a teddy bear:
Yay! Cute! Always good.
I mix internally mainly because of the afore mentioned ease of set-up. No worries about what gear is at the event, as long as there is an open channel. That being said, I much prefer the sound of a good external mixer and it's eq's. I really don't like Traktor's eq sound (any of 'em), but since I mix more than two sources and my sound card is only 4 channel, I stick to the internal setup. I think getting an Audio 8 and making a mapping for 4 channel external mixing may be in my future, but I'd only use it when set-up would be chill (no "you've got 1 minute left on the vinyl, go for it" type scenarios).
I really don't like hauling mixers to gigs either...
So your main problem with external mixing is the trouble caused to connect all 4 channels from the sound card to the mixer?:confused:
the perfect thing for this is the denon mc 6000
it is a real mixer like the x1600 (same components)allowing you to use it with external mixing.
awesome
it sounds great, feels great.
thats why i bought it and not the SSsss 4
I agree that the denon is a hell of a controller/mixer. Although IMO it seems to have not many buttons to map.
I've never understood how you connect a controller to a club system. Is it just RCA to an open input on the club mixer with EQs all set at twelve o'clock and volume all the way up?
That's how it's done round my way.
Idk about that, 8 cues, full fx control for traktor. Looks shit hot to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippro
Agree but how easy will it be to control sample decks with it?
The same way you connect any other audio source to a club system…Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniRoss
Just checking!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
So you think that the not stand alone mixer of the s4 is a deal breaker?
get a decent controller, problem solved...Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPopinjay
Can you name the controllers you think are decent?:)Quote:
Originally Posted by padi_04
the knobs on the x1 are excellent and accurate for eqing, but i still prefer using the mixer though.
Right now I am kind of tore up about this myself.
I had a stanton scs3 system for a year or so. Then I wanted a more "solid" controller because there where times when the USB went a bit wonky while I was playing a house party. Nothing serious to the set but I was nerve-wrecked for a bit.
I went out and bought a denon x120 as a practice rig. If I was in a club setting I would just plug into the mixer there. I wanted the feel of an analog mixer. Right now I am using that with 2 midi-fighter. I want some knobs to control the effects so I think the X1 is going to be my next step.
I prefer even the denon x120 to the internal mixer. I enjoy the concrete nature of analog mixers. If the software goings tits-up at least you could have an emergency deck ready to swap out and keep the energy. Thats what its all about isnt it?
Having it routed internal makes the mess-of-cables less tangled. The cables are annoying when you have a "mobile" setup that has to be setup everytime you play.
Sorry for the ramble
I think that that is the only pluss internal mixing offers. What I am planning to do is put an audio 4dj in the case of the x1 which fits perfectly and probably an audio 2dj as aggregate device to route 4 external channels to the analog mixer. So, the cables going out of the x1's bagwill be measured and colored to the corresponding line in of the 4-channel mixer. So setup time will be less and you will only have to connect the same cables you would normally connect to the controller + an powercable for the analog mixer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Porkie
Is there enough room to place the audio card's internals and also connections for the audio cables? Sounds like a great solution!Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippro
Yes there is. The x1 has the same width with the audio 4dj and the same height (with the knobs). So you can either put an audio 4dj and an audio 2 in one x1 bag or have an audio4dj in two x1 bags. In other words you can make an x1 with its bag like the xone 2D.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderbongertman
Spot on post.Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
well u gotta use a lil bit of eerything, so i ue whatever is easier and better during mixing
most places i've spun at don't offer a mixer, they rely on the DJ to bring his own, then they have an input into the speaker amplifier, so like one pair of 1/4", a pair of XLR, and a pair of RCAs, so if you have any of those types of connections you can plug in your soundcard or your own mixer.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniRoss
Sense, this post makes none.
Quote:
Originally Posted by farhanashraf
I'm glad you said it dude. I spent a good few mins staring at it in confusion before giving up and logging out.
btwQuote:
Originally Posted by Philippro
s4 wasn't the 1º, what about DX, VMS4, and hybrids like allen's 3D/4D or DDM400?
Agree, but it was kind of a breakthrough providing the tight traktor integrtion and the new software. DX is a good example too but it was designed for itch. And the VMS4 appears on the reviews that lacks of quality. Good point of yours though.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by padi_04
This thread is a couple years old now but is quite relevant to my situation and did not want to make a new thread. So was wondering if any body has some fresh thoughts on it? maybe after moving to an S4 or visa versa? Anything you miss in particular? I really enjoy mixing externally for the feel but the portability of an all in one controller is apealing. Considering you never know what the clubs mixer is gonna be like if you mix externally.
I'm torn at the momont of going for a
4 channel mixer + soundcard + and 2 kontrol x1
or some 4 deck midi controller or S2 + kontrol x1
help :eek:
thanks :o
for me: only external.
Yeah, still not encountered a controller that feels as good as a decent mixer. Even the S4 doesn't feel that great in comparison to a nice mixer.
If you look through my post history, within the last couple of weeks I posted a pretty lengthy reply comparing the S4 to the DJM 900 in a similar thread to this one. There was a lot of good discussion outside of my post in that thread as well. If you have trouble finding it let me know and I'll have a look for you.