beat matching do u or don't you
do u press the sync button. do u think u need to understand beat match now days or is it a skill that will die out
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beat matching do u or don't you
do u press the sync button. do u think u need to understand beat match now days or is it a skill that will die out
i do, have done since 1998...but i will admit when i first got traktor i did play out a few times at commercial venues using sync, but then got bored...
...however the T Squared venture im half of, we use sync for obvious reasons...when juggling 4-8 channels of audio its essential
??
Well...you DEFINATELY need to know and understand beatmatching and phrasing in order to DJ effectively.
Without this fundamental skill....you will not feel very proud of your skill set.
I have been beatmatching for more than 10 years and know I can do it in my sleep.
I have proved I can be tight as fuck....over and over.
No need to prove it to anyone anymore I feel.
I don't press the sync all the time. I use Sync Lock. So this leaves me time to do other MUCH more interesting things than Beatmatching. Makes DJing MUCH more fun for me....
However, sometimes I don't beatgrid my tracks well enough and they will be out.
Then its just a matter of Pitch Bend to correct it.
I do feel that it is something you need to know in order to be a good DJ.
Sure, you could be able to kill it in a session without ever having beatmatched before...due to Traktor helping you there. But I am sure if you are skipping that aspect and skill....you will skip others too. Just mixing like you would with Vinyl or CD's and a mixer...on Traktor when using Sync is just NAFF. Its a cop out.
You doing nothing more with the time saved by Syncing. That to me is a FAIL!
Sync is there to save you time....in order to give you time to do cooler things.
Not stand and Pose!
:)
The actual skill in beatmatching is not getting the tracks to be the same tempo....any monkey can restart a track while adjusting the pitch. In time....you will find it. Practice and it comes faster!
The actual skill you learn is being able to hear WHICH track is losing or gaining time and fix it without the punters noticing. The skill is knowing whether to speed up or slow down. If you having to check both sides.....then you don't really have it yet.
You have it when you can hear the instant it is off beat and know whether to nudge forward or backwards.
IMHO.
:)
weekly sync appreciation, nice.
i tend to walk to work. i like to prove i can put one foot in front of the other. using a car to save time to get to work while talking on the phone is just
NAFF
as you put it?
what does that mean, anyway. not a yank term, im afraid.
I think people that say you don't need to learn how to beatmatch now a days is being quite arrogant. Its a skill that i think everybody should get the basics and be able to beatmatch for at least 30 seconds..
I have proved many many times to many fellow DJ's i play alongside i can be rock solid at beatmatching. I still have no interest in using Sync but don't have a problem with people who do. I just think people should know how to do it.
learning how to mix two records, tracks, or whatever, is a fundamental skill all djs should know. but, with all the technology available now, you gotta keep growing.
i learned how to dj with records and how to ride a pitch on funk 45s (7") and old disco tracks. i even taught myself how to scratch. but, now i'm learning how to dj all over again with this traktor s4. and with 4 audio sources and the effects and other tools i've mapped to my other midi controller, that is a lot to keep up with. and having to babysit all that manually would be too much.
no respectable club is going to book someone who can't beatmatch.
its a very basic and imo the most important skill any dj can learn.
many people think that because everything is digital they can just let the computer do all the work.
well, i'll put one question out there.
say your doing a gig, and your software crashes, or your controller breaks, or some form of not being able to use your computer
what are you gonna do?
my answer would be use the club's set up. which is most likely 2 turntables and 2 cdj's
well. how are you gonna mix now, since your so used to the computer doing everything?
i have been a digital dj my whole life.
BUT. i learned all the basics and some advanced techniques to mixing using turntables.
the best and hardest way to learn.
so in short.
yes learn to beatmatch. it will help you out ALOT in the long run.
Even for those enslaved to the sync button you need to understand how to beatmatch, especially when the DJ on previously is using the decks or CDJs and you want to blend into what he's doing ...
you must be from a different planet than i'm from.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisEPIC
there are plenty of clubs who book hacks that can't mix a tune to hold their salt. but, they sure can bring people in to keep the bar busy all night, all while keeping people on the dancefloor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Cerna
where i'm from, the clubs don't just book people off the street
if you can't mix a tune, or keep good progression, then their not going to want you playing at an event with well over 300 people
Beat matching is useless. But, while you're learning to do it, you learn phrase matching and track structures (hopefully). If you can learn that on your own, fine. If you don't learn that, it will always be audible in your mixes.
I also don't understand what you're supposedly saving time for. Everyone I've heard use that excuse just doesn't seem to understand anything about what they're doing (Ritchie Hawtin aside) and adds useless garbage to ruin every song they play. Or they do things in a harder way than they have to just to show off what you can do with sync.
I–on the other hand–use sync because it's there. It works fine. I can fix it when it doesn't work. And there's nothing even remotely artistic about sync. It saves trouble.
That being said, if CDJs incorporated key shifting and–now that I've grown to love it–'beats to cue' in a reasonably priced player…I'd switch without hesitating.
quick scratch drop and slam the crossfader keeps the top40 crowd going all nite. :confused:
At my new gig (400+/wed/sat) I do not beat match crap except the 130bpm stuff. It is all about knowing when to do the quick cuts and drops. :)
that's a pretty naive statement coming from a 17 year old kid. i've been clubbing longer than you've been alive and djing long enough to know your statement is bunk.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisEPIC
i've even been to huge massives where were "big name" djs haven't been on their A game, wrecking every other track. that doesn't stop people from going there to see them.
hell, i've even had bad nights where i can't even mix for shit, but somehow i've got a full dancefloor. be it the alcohol flying around or the girls in heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TABS
thats top40 crowd
not edm crowd
i guess the clubs where i'm from are different then other clubs.
but all of our clubs play edm and attract a very huge edm base
Quote:
Originally Posted by completej
HEHEHEH...NAFF.....is kinda like....sad....gay....dodge....
UNCOOL!
i'm just saying. its different depending on what area your from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Cerna
as i said. the area that i'm from has a very huge edm scene.
and by fucking up a mix, it really takes from the energy.
the more bad transitions the more the energy slowly fades away, the less people dancing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Cerna
Agreed!
Digital DJing is MORE than (or should be more) than just DJing.
Boosting the volume....cutting over the bass.....fade out volume.
How BORING!
Digital DJing allows you to do creative mixes using FX and loops and samples.
You can remix on the fly.
Its MORE than DJing....period.
:)
Epic Beatmatching FTW!
I can beatmatch on vinyl or CDJs if i'm spinning house or anything 4/4, but when i'm spinning breaks and DnB i rarely bother with beatmatching, since overlapping rhythm sections sounds horrible most the time, i just make sure everything is phrased correctly and let the tracks do the work.
I use sync, but only for music that i could beatmatch manually, as i don't bother to beatmatch most dnb/breaks i just utilize good selection.
Yaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwn. Why are people still arguing about this non-issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
LOl...then you not watching DJ's worth anything.....
I know guys on this board....as well as myself.....who play 4 decks...and mix in key some of the time...and can bump between cues and drop samples and FX intelligently....without making it sound SHYTE.
So while i do tend to agree with you that there are MANY out there that sync and leave it there....there are many who do push the envelope...correctly without fucking about.
You just gotta find them.
They are few and far between....mostly still bedroom.
But wait....they will RISE!
:)
I am the only guy i know who plays Psy with a Controller here in SA.
Its not big here....but its getting there.
It will weed out the COP outs...and elevate the envelope pushers...
Junk will fall to the side lines....like it usually does.
it depends on your gear, how serious you want to be about DJing, and what kind of events you're playing. if you are a bedroom DJ or you want to DJ some weddings and bar mitzvas with a controller, i wouldn't say it's a necessary skill.
i know how to beatmatch but the way my controller is mapped i don't have a tempo fader so i just use sync. i may never need to beatmatch again but i like knowing that i can do it.
[edit] not knocking bedroom DJs btw... just making the point that if nobody is watching, nobody will know.
it's just like the turntablist vs controllerist argumentQuote:
Originally Posted by lethal_pizzle
beatmatchers vs sync'rs
the people who've been doing it from the start don't like the idea of completely skipping a major part of being a dj
When I was in school I learned to do math with a pencil and paper. These days I use a calculator. Nevertheless, having learned with pencil and paper means I understand a lot more about what's going on when I need to do math, and I can do it in my head when I need to if a calculator isn't available. Same with beatmatching (which, frankly, is just math -- simple math at that). I learned on turntables and vinyl and have done it that way for years; I can still do it that way when I need to (and often do it just for fun). But pressing sync is like using a calculator - it saves time and energy to concentrate on other things (not just messing with effects, which I try to keep to a minimum, but more basic things like song selection and phrasing).
And by the way if you're using traktor and you're looking at the screen, you're not really beatmatching, not by ear anyway. If you're looking at the phase meter and the BPM value you don't need to use your ears. In fact try beatmatching without even listening to the songs -- you can do it right every time without the sync button and without your ears just by looking at the visual cues. Sync is just another tool that puts it all together for you. If you don't like using it, fine, but it doesn't make you a better DJ or even a better beatmatcher.
dnb and breaks are almost always 4/4. I really can't think of any tracks that aren't. And they generally sound fine when beatmatched correctly -- sure, you can mess it up if the drum patterns are radically different but it's not a question of different time signatures. When dealing with vinyl where I haven't clocked the BPM I actually find it easier to beatmatch dnb than house sometimes, since the tempo and phrasing of dnb tends to vary a lot less than much house music. I find dnb extremely predictable musically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxted
this, why on earth people can't use ye olde search function I will never know, as for the question i love sync it makes me feel wonderful, I was beatmatching back in the late 80's and I can still do it now, thankfull i don't have to ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by completej
I dont see the big deal really. I think the only point turntable vinyl guys can bring up is beatmatching cuz thats all they can say. now a days technology makes digital dj's alot more portable and easy to setup, i just think they need to stop holding on to beatmatching like its some sacred treasure or something. Now ive learned to beat match and beat match all my tracks in. no sync. i do use syne to keep them in time tho. this is after ive got the two tracks working together. I do this cuz i like to do long blends and the sync helps keep them locked together. I only think u should use sync if ur doing stuff like ean golden. even he sometimes doesnt use it.
Can beatmatch but i use the sync buzzer! And i love it!
I see your point chris, and tend to agree that beatmatching is a useful skill to have in your arsenal. However i have to disagree on a couple of points.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisEPIC
Firstly, since a club is equally as likely to book you either on the strength of a mix tape or even your online popularity, i doubt they're going to hand you some vinyl and give you a beatmatching exam first.
Secondly, what are you going to be playing on the club system? Not having to burn and carry around a big book of CDs is part of the advantage of digital DJing. One or two CDs in case of a crash maybe, but it doesn't take that long to restart.
Also, another one of the big advantage of the digital revolution is that it opens up DJing to a wide range of people without the need for an expensive pair of Decks/CDJs and mixer. These days I would go so far as to say that beatmatching by ear is not by any means the first skill you need to learn as a new DJ, more of an additional bonus once you've got the hang of the other basics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
true, digital djing offers so many possibilities. i just think that people take to much advantage of it.
learning digital doesnt give you the full experience as you would learn on vinyl or cds.
i've seen many people who haver never in their life even touched vinyl but their all digital.
my prefered setup at a club is bringing my laptop and 2 vinyls. all i need. the club has an audio 8 and a very good mixer, as well as turntables.
timecode and play :D
----
edit: i also always bring cd's with me whenever i go to any show.
digital may have more possibilities but it also has a chance of crashing.
thats why i think people should know how to beatmatch.
if something happens and you need to use the cdj's you have experience
see thats ur setup. i dont have to touch vinyl at all, but i have. dont see what the full experience is. just cuz ive never driven a original ferrari, i cant go out and buy i new one with more features and is easier to drive?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisEPIC
unless the 'bad transitions' are severe double beating train wrecks, 99% of people in the crowd dont notice. it's only the dj's in the crowd that would pick up on it. so unless everyone in Duluth, Minnesota is a dj i can't see it being that big of a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisEPIC
if i had a dollar for the each time i've been out with friends and pointed out 'bad transitions' to them and they just shrug and say they didnt notice... i'd have paid cash for a murcielago
energy is lost by dropping your next track in the wrong part of the structure, or by not reading your crowd and dropping the wrong track.
beatmatching is a required skill in any dj's asenal as you never know when you'll need to use it (gear fail/mixing into previous dj's set) - but knowing your tracks IS a must.
actually, not my set upQuote:
Originally Posted by BennyJ
only at clubs
i mix on tons of things. at home i use a keyboard
raves i do 4 deck sets and use controllers for some juggling etc
if you read my previous post i've stated that several times and it has been my main reason of why you should know how to beatmatchQuote:
beatmatching is a required skill in any dj's asenal as you never know when you'll need to use it (gear fail/mixing into previous dj's set) - but knowing your tracks IS a must.
NopeQuote:
Originally Posted by bazzfc
http://images2.memegenerator.net/Ima...ame=Spock-memeQuote:
Originally Posted by photojojo
Just pulling your leg. ;)
Sorry to bang on about this, but isn't that like saying sure, iPods are great, but people should really be using CD walkmans? or only loading their iPods with 1 album at a time to truly emulate the hardships of when CDs were the only way? Why not take full advantage of everything digital systems have to offer!Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisEPIC
I honestly don't see a problem with that. I'll avoid using the iPod/walkman analogy again but really why should people have to learn vinyl? Beatmatching doesn't necessarily have to be on vinyl, and there is a reason they don't make 1200s any more - the technology is antiquated.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisEPIC
As I said earlier, I do like vinyl and enjoy playing it, but that's all it is: it's fun for me. I don't think new DJs should feel a duty to learn on vinyl.
EDIT just re read that and you did mention CDJs as well, yes I agree people should know at least the basics of how to use one.
totally understand what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
as for taking advantage of something.
i cant think of an analogy. but what i mean is, using to much of something that pretty much does all the work for you, then when you need to do something that doesn't do all the work for you, you'll be lost and confused.
i just feel that every club dj should have experience with some sort of vinyl or cd in case something goes wrong.
i'm just the kind of person that may come off rude, but i've dealt with some pretty huge dicks when i started out. and i want people to learn that in the music industry you cant take the easy way out all the time.
yes i will admit sync can be useful. but you should be able to beatmatch without it.
yep, all fair. full agreement reached.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisEPIC
hang on, I think we may just have made internet forum history...
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by fullenglishpint
headlines
"forum flame war ends with agreement, FIRST EVER without a meth rant"
That stuff is expensive. I can see in ten years clubs not having gear in the booth because the DJ's bring their own kit or have riders and the clubs have to rent the kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisEPIC
It's like when it switched from film to digital. You learned so much about exposure and composition developing and cropping your own film that it went a long way to making you a better photographer. "Real" photographers told the new kids to learn how to develop your film because it'll make you a better photographer. blah, blah, blah been there done that and it's completely irrelevant in photography now and will be in the future for DJ'ing.