So i really want to learn to beatmatch manually

Ok so ive got to the stage where im looking for club gigs and most places dont want laptop DJs yet as its still "underground" im looking at either a small all-in-one unit like the numark mixdeck for (possible) house parties/small gigs or something along the lines of a pair of used CDJ800MK2's and im looking at a new mixer too, but thats out of the equation atm.

- all in one units, Mixdexdeck etc
or
- CDJs.

Also: how easilly can each of these be hooked up to the laptop, i see the mixdeck has USB, and i guess i can just use timecode for the 800s yes?

tech12s !

Laptops are underground? Everyone in Dallas uses them. Hmm, I had to say though, us digital guys are a bit ahead, from what I saw when I peaked into the booth the other weekend, the resident DJ was using VDJ. I kinda lol-ed, and it made me wanna try to get a residency or even a guest gig there to show them how its done. Silly club owners though, this is the way of the future!

CDJ 800's will be a good investment, as would used 1210's...

You can always purchase traktor scratch or serato dvs to enjoy the best of both worlds.

pretty much every club will have CDJ's so its always a good idea to invest in time in learning how to use them, I did, still hate them, but at least I can use them. Very few clubs have good turntables as they are just a liability these days so that might steer you away from that route. Most clubs are scared of laptop DJ's. Laptops crash/take up space/aren't 'industry standard' so its always best to have a back up plan I.E a CD wallet.

I would steer away from any all in one unit. They are kinda amateur and aimed at the bedroom/wedding DJ market really and lack lots of features and flexibility and will eventually hold you back.

@duerr, rare to see TTs in clubs anymore, so no point really
@itajeN, NYE was the first time i ever seen a laptop in any of the clubs local to me, and was using serato itch.
+@JamesT, i already own full traktor scratch pro, and ive been a pure controllerist up untill now.

I was just wondering if there was any other ways of connecting the 800mk2s to a laptop other than DVS, im still unsure what this HID thing is, but the 800s dont have USB so i doubt thatll happen.

Do you play Traktor or Ableton? Something else?

I know strictly laptop DJs who play both and taught themselves to beatmatch manually on both without any decks.

In Traktor, map some incremental tempo and pitch bend keys. I used to play with a guy every weekend who did this on his laptop keyboard, and we'd be mixing into each other all night long as long as he knew the exact tempo my tracks were running at.

Another good friend of mine could do the same in Ableton with a global pitch bend mapped to his controller. Again, he'd have to know the tempo but after a bit of practice he was spot on every time.

Just saying that beatmatching is a universally executable skill not limited to platter/pitch fader type devices.

Id prefer to learn on the same style "standard" that clubs use for now

Nope, no way of hooking CDJ800s up except for timecode.
If you really wanna do that, you'll need something along the line of a cdj400 or cdj350 - if it really has to be pioneer.
IMHO, if you only want to learn beatmatching, you don't have to shell out that kind of money. Get something like a Radius 1000, maybe a Denon 1200.

I knew how to beatmatch from my vinyl-only days, but when I had to get myself used to using a CDJ for a series of gigs, I just got a single cheap one that kind of resembled the pioneers layout-wise, just to get used to it. Don't even remember what brand it was. Worked out alright.

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Originally Posted by PartyMcFly

Do you play Traktor or Ableton? Something else?

I know strictly laptop DJs who play both and taught themselves to beatmatch manually on both without any decks.

In Traktor, map some incremental tempo and pitch bend keys. I used to play with a guy every weekend who did this on his laptop keyboard, and we'd be mixing into each other all night long as long as he knew the exact tempo my tracks were running at.

Another good friend of mine could do the same in Ableton with a global pitch bend mapped to his controller. Again, he'd have to know the tempo but after a bit of practice he was spot on every time.

Just saying that beatmatching is a universally executable skill not limited to platter/pitch fader type devices.

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beatmaching with BPM readings ain't really beatmaching IMO. It's just making sure machines aren't phased. you can still learn to beatmatch with only a computer and some clever mapping.

Ah, vanity beatmatching. I see.

In that case make sure you get something with a loooong pitch fader. Don't bother with the short ones. Learning to use a pitch fader to dial in a tempo is a pretty universal skill.

Pitch bending is so easy that you won't be lost if you have buttons, jog dial, or TT platter. No worries there. Learn one, use them all.

Cheers on the road to looking cool to the old guys!

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Originally Posted by PartyMcFly

Just saying that beatmatching is a universally executable skill not limited to platter/pitch fader type devices.

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true, but there is a bit of a difference doing "nudging" with buttons for software than it is using a platter on analog decks.
i think it's a little trickier with analog because you need a gentler touch with platters, so i can understand why hoodless would want his own gear to refine the skill.

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Originally Posted by duerr

true, but there is a bit of a difference doing "nudging" with buttons for software than it is using a platter on analog decks.
i think it's a little trickier with analog because you need a gentler touch with platters, so i can understand why hoodless would want his own gear to refine the skill.

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sure you need to get to know the feel of a specific piece of gear, but your ear would be trained for it.

If you have the money get the gear :)

I'd personally go CDJ's. Doesnt really matter which ones as beatmatching is beatmatching.
Plus they are still pretty transportable from gig to gig.

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Originally Posted by PartyMcFly

Ah, vanity beatmatching. I see.

In that case make sure you get something with a loooong pitch fader. Don't bother with the short ones. Learning to use a pitch fader to dial in a tempo is a pretty universal skill.

Pitch bending is so easy that you won't be lost if you have buttons, jog dial, or TT platter. No worries there. Learn one, use them all.

Cheers on the road to looking cool to the old guys!

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actually I never gave a F*** about what others think of how I look or which are the tools I'm using to mix (else I would never have considered using software to mix back in 2005). My point was it's not the same to move a pitch fader (either analog or in a program) until you see 2 values coincide than being able to tell that only by listening to it. Want to do it like your friends did? no problem, be happy and rock the place, but that ain't "technically" beatmatching.

No shots made, my friend.

There's also a small bit of good advice and an outside perspective from someone who came up on a computer DJing paradigm and moved to a DVS setup as well.

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Originally Posted by JamesT

I would steer away from any all in one unit. They are kinda amateur and aimed at the bedroom/wedding DJ market really and lack lots of features and flexibility and will eventually hold you back.

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Sorry for going off-topic, but OUCH! That comment hurts! Would you consider the VCI-Arcade Edition and S4 in that category?

Noooo! I wasn't talking about controllers in that comment! Sorry that you got the wrong idea...

I meant that the all in one CDJ things that all mobile DJ's seem to have would be a bad investment as the allow for no flexibility in the future and contain awful mixers.

rent some cdj's for a couple weeks.

watch these videos

http://howtodj.djdownload.com/

you should have it down in a week or so if you practice enough.

beatmaching with cdj's and turntables is like learning to ride a bike. once you have it down, its not something you easilly forget.

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Originally Posted by xtianw

rent some cdj's for a couple weeks......

beatmaching with cdj's and turntables is like learning to ride a bike. once you have it down, its not something you easilly forget.

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BINGO. havnt played with CDJ's or turntables in a longggg time (a 5 yrs atleast... before i went digital) and i went over my buddys and played with his new 2000's (theyre pretty lookin) and after playin with it for 10 min i had it all back.

its all in the ears. save your money and rent some and get some sweet new cans cause your ears are the ones that are gonna be doing all the heavy work.

nah id prefer to buy, so when i go raj at them, i can just walk away and not have to worry about me paying £££. im prob gona get them used/refurb'd. £5/600 for two 800mk2's?

You can still beatmatch on a dig setup. Assign one vertical fader on a controller to adjust the pitch of whichever deck in Traktor is focused. Assign the spacebar to toggle which deck is focused and assign some buttons to bend the tempo forward and back. Just make sure the sensitivity inside traktor is set to 8%. You don't want to nudge the fader a tad and jump 6bpm.

Holy shit man, you can get them that cheap? I swear now they are double that.

Why not go for a different brand that doesn't have a price tag inflated by its popularity? I always thought the reloop cd players looked pretty nice.

You know what? If you can get a decent pair of 800s for that price, get them.
I doubt it though.

Dude are you the jimbob guy on youtube who uses 2 turntables, some american audio cdj and an otus? I like your mixes :)

from what i've read and seen on youtube, the current reloop cd jogs look really good for the price.

or if you can wait till march april take a look at the gemini cdj-700's..

they're pretty much a pioneer cdj1000/2000 hybrid with midi control so you can use them without the need of timecode in traktor/serato/vdj/etc. i think they'll retail at about £400 a piece and the layout is pretty much 100% pioneer cdj1000

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Originally Posted by MrPopinjay

Dude are you the jimbob guy on youtube who uses 2 turntables, some american audio cdj and an otus? I like your mixes :)

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Man, I got busted...

Don't have the otus anymore though.

Okay so I stopped reading this post back on page 3. Then I kept seeing it pop up, and finally something really caught my eye / bugged me. I'm curious, was this thread ever about learning how to beat match? Or is it just a "help me pick out new gear" thread?

I'm not hating, just confused.

I wouldnt recommend trying to beat match on a digital setup, midi faders are way too low resolution imo

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Originally Posted by Conall

I wouldnt recommend trying to beat match on a digital setup, midi faders are way too low resolution imo

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FW 1.4 should be ok (though 1.3 is irritating at times, you do have to nudge the vinyl a bit much ...)

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Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms

FW 1.4 should be ok (though 1.3 is irritating at times, you do have to nudge the vinyl a bit much ...)

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huh?

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Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms

FW 1.4 should be ok (though 1.3 is irritating at times, you do have to nudge the vinyl a bit much ...)

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While the resolution issue is fixed there the VCI still doesn't have faders large enough to act as pitch faders. The line faders are longer than the vci pitch fader ffs!

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Originally Posted by Conall

huh?

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I use TSP with a VCI100 as a mixer - the pitch faders aren't quite accurate enough to do long blends with the 1.3 firmware as they have a maximum resolution of about 0.7 bpm.

Therefore you occasionally have to nudge the vinyl to knock everything back into sync.

Apparently the 1.4 firmware improves this ...

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Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms

I use TSP with a VCI100 as a mixer - the pitch faders aren't quite accurate enough to do long blends with the 1.3 firmware as they have a maximum resolution of about 0.7 bpm.

Therefore you occasionally have to nudge the vinyl to knock everything back into sync.

Apparently the 1.4 firmware improves this ...

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Ok there's so many issues here. First off the bpm is going to be relative to the original tempo of the song. To say the minimum you can adjust it by is 0.7bpm is complete nonsense.

Also the resolution, while an issue, isn't the biggest problem here. Go look at a turn table or a CDJ. Look at the pitch fader. It's fucking huge and offers a bit of resistance. The VCI pitch faders are not even slightly suitable unless you have the worlds tiniest pitch range. Possible 4% or something similar. Yeah you cuold get away with if you're just going for some EDM and tempo doesn't vary much throughout your collection but it's just a huge step backwards. The whole point in using digital equipment is that you have more flexibility, more options. It seems nuts that a digital DJ would have a lower pitch range than someone using technics.

Are you using the pitch faders on your controller and the pitch faders on your turntables? That's insanely cool. I didn't even realise that was possible... Or have I misunderstood you?

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Originally Posted by MrPopinjay

Ok there's so many issues here. First off the bpm is going to be relative to the original tempo of the song. To say the minimum you can adjust it by is 0.7bpm is complete nonsense.

Also the resolution, while an issue, isn't the biggest problem here. Go look at a turn table or a CDJ. Look at the pitch fader. It's fucking huge and offers a bit of resistance. The VCI pitch faders are not even slightly suitable unless you have the worlds tiniest pitch range. Possible 4% or something similar. Yeah you cuold get away with if you're just going for some EDM and tempo doesn't vary much throughout your collection but it's just a huge step backwards. The whole point in using digital equipment is that you have more flexibility, more options. It seems nuts that a digital DJ would have a lower pitch range than someone using technics.

Are you using the pitch faders on your controller and the pitch faders on your turntables? That's insanely cool. I didn't even realise that was possible... Or have I misunderstood you?

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I use both ,as and when needed ...

I think the pitch is a defined minimum step rather than a percentage of the whole, and I think the step is 0.7 ... though I will go and check

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Originally Posted by Sherlock Ohms

I use both ,as and when needed ...

I think the pitch is a defined minimum step rather than a percentage of the whole, and I think the step is 0.7 ... though I will go and check

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Do they work relatively to each other or do they override each other?

It has to be a percentage since 0.7bpm of 80bpm hiphop tune is a huge difference while 0.7bpm of a 300bpm speedcore tune is incredibly fine. I'm explaining myself really badly but trust me, it's all percentages of the total.

http://djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31040