I understand 320s are the standard for your standard club sound system. But when is it necessary to start using wavs?
I know wavs are the only ones used in big music festivals, so I guess a better question would be what sound systems (be it brand, the amount of watts they have, etc) need wavs over 320s?
thanks!
Funktion 1 = WAVES ONLY!!!!!
otherwise I dont think you would hear much difference
320's are fine bro, dont sweat it (as long as they are legit 320's, not fake re-encoded blog shit)
You'd find it easier to tell the difference at home than at a packed club Funktion 1 or not.
Why would increased sound quality be important for festivals? With those kind of events the speakers are designed to be (comparatively) light and loud, not accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianmarco
thats what I was thinking and not only that but theres also a ton of background noise. cant do anything about the occasional plane overhead or the thousands of people chattering awayQuote:
Originally Posted by MrPopinjay
yeah, festival sound systems are generally shite - but LOUD
genuine 320's will be absolutely fine on any system
320 for playing and wav for producing
You can definitely tell on high end kit, Noise Control, Funktion 1, high end Martin stuff. There's more definition on the high and bass end to my ears anyway.
Crappy studio monitors > Any club system no matter how much money they threw into it.
I couldn't disagree more, I think you've just been going to bad clubs.
i am always gonna stick with 320s
Club systems are designed to sound loud and exciting while studio monitors are designed to be accurate so producers can hear exactly what they are doing.
Hm. Yes you're right, the Frankenstein's monster sub fest running in mono in a room full shouting people and no textured surfaces is going to have the extra bit of subtlety where those audio artefacts in your classical music will really become obvious.
Hehe... exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPopinjay
Even if you are a position to be able to tell the difference between 320 and wav on a good system whats the point? Given the likely actual difference and the environment its in, it's nothing more than w@nkery.
I fairly sure no punters experience is going to be more or less enriched because of it. :rolleyes:
The quality of music is only the beginning of the chain.
Its true that it should be of good quality, but when you start thinking about how much processing actually takes place across the whole system, any one of those points can introduce undesirables.
e.g. if the EQ or crossover is incorrectly setup for that particular system it'll sound like shite no matter what you put through it.
So stick with 320's and you should be fine, just blame the sound guy ;)
Also, one last thing of note. . .
STAY OUT OF THE RED!
The amount of times ive seen vinyl preachers maxing out mixers and completely destroying both the speakers, their sound and my eardrums is horriffic.
You really think that a good high end club system can't sound accurate? The people at FK1 would probably disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPopinjay
:D
Like I said, I think you've just been playing at bad clubs. I regularly play on big quality systems and the difference is noticeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bastard
What's funny is I've heard people say the same thing, and then proved their ears wrong on big quality systems when they couldn't tell the difference in an ears only test.
not to mention club systems are more often than not setup in mono...
I was exaggerating a little :P
I think key lock/key changing is more detrimental to artifacts on a club system than mp3's quality to be honest.
I was in a club recently who are using a Nexo Rig and there was pretty obvious "chopping" artifacts from the keylock - bugged me more than if I was hearing a 128k mp3.
Fact is most regular punters wont notice either once they like the tunes and are a lil mashed. Its only DJ's and Audio Geeks that will.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by sobi
I have yet to meet the person that can distinguish wavs from 320k mp3s in a blind test.
As for the funktion 1 guys, anybody who's seen that documentary about them that's been posted here somewhere knows that they're absolutely crazy. In a good way, but crazy nonetheless. I mean, they actually claim that CD Quality audio is barely acceptable for their systems. Reality check anyone?
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbob5000
So what audio quality is acceptable for Funktion 1?Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbob5000
If the don't like CDs, they certainly can't like vinyl with all of the clicks and pops. :rolleyes:
A few months ago, i was in a local club here that has a Funktion One soundsystem, absolutely awesome.
There was this dj playing off traktor, 320kb/s, sounded amazing, nothing wrong with it. But when the DJ after him took over, with his Ableton WAV live set, you could actually feel the floor tremble as soon as his first bassline hit the speakers. The sound was just deeper, and the high's a bit crisper.
You know mp3's were designed to cut out frequencies we humans can't hear.. but that doesn't mean we can't feel them.
There is a difference :).
You have to control for all variables. There's not enough information here to be sure that the mp3 - wav is what has caused this perception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyte
Double-Blind A/B is the _only_ way to do it for sure, and the understanding I have is that whenever this kind of test is done, no statistically significant difference can be demonstrated.
*shrugs*
Exactly. Unless they played the same track after eachother, the difference is just as likely one percieved by you based on your awareness of the Funktion 1 system. Also, it's more the high end rather than the low end where mp3's and wavs differ.Quote:
Originally Posted by ellgieff
All this Funktion 1 fanboyism is a little tedious as well. I think they are great systems but there are others out there as well that are just as good. Regardless, their relatively recent surge to the forefront as some sort of default Ultimate Brand speaks as much of clever marketing as any actual quality...:rolleyes:
not trying to necropost....
but if anyone is interested, diplo dropped my friends bootleg at edc. I asked if he gave him a 320 or wav and he said 320. I am petty sure EDC used funktion 1
The way i look at it is, if i am being payed to dj then i am there to provide the best possible performance for the crowd, that includes sound quality of the music. For that reason don't second guess the chance that an mp3 will sound like crap, just play out wav's no matter what then you can forget about that issue. Never leave yourself open for an opportunity for something to go wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash101uk
A bad DJ is a bad DJ redlining has nothing to do with medium, so...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ECCKJgSgZ4
Please tell us then of this amazing storage device you use to house all of your uncompressed music and take it with you everywhere you go.Quote:
Originally Posted by 16b441khz
:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16b441khz
Just to play devils advocate, unless you are buying from a retailer or getting the file directly from an artist, you have no way of knowing if the WAV was or wasn't converted from a lesser quality file. Playing WAV doesn't guarantee things will be problem free. That being said, I see where your coming from. WAV is almost always gonna be better quality.
This, it's not so much of an issue of sound quality I thought, more of an issue of larger speakers take more of the sound wave (for lack of a better term) to be pushed properlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Whyte
What, there's no such thing as a badly mastered wave file?Quote:
Originally Posted by 16b441khz
All those mastering engineers are getting paid for nothing!!!!
FYI, human ear begins to compress at 90db SPL.
At a festival/in a club you won't get enough clear sound to determine if there's artifacting without have your ears naturally fighting to get out alive, thus ruining your critical listening skills.
You should use uncompressed CD quality audio when you are producing a mix compilation for mass retail on CD.
Haha, I wish to inform you that there is no such magical device :P. I just "trim the fat" on my music that goes on my djing laptop everything else is on an external with a back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paka Ono
I'm in the wrong profession then i think! :P I'm just saying if the DJ apply's some sort of quality control at his end then if it still sounds crap its either a) poor sound system set up and/or b) poorly mixed and/or mastered tune. These things he will never have control over unless it is his own productions he is playing out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ellgieff
Not exactly correct but the general idea is there; your ears will naturally 'compress' (i think you mean fatigue) once noise goes beyond a threshold which is specific to each individual. At 85dB SPL most people can last 8hrs before they can't accurately 'judge' what they are hearing. That's why in some studio's they will mixdown at this level. However, over that 8hr period the hearing will still slowly fatigue no matter what. After this time period your pretty much in the zone of getting hearing damage. At 100dB SPL it only takes 2-3 minutes before you get hearing fatigue/damage. With this said though the human ear can build up a certain 'tolerance' after extended time in these environments. It depends how often you go beyond these guidelines as to whether or not you get hearing damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by biru
I mean your ears will begin to distort around that level, from the physical sound pressure. Which will impact your ability to tell the difference someone is mixing 320kbps MP3s or wax cylinders inscribed by Moses.Quote:
Originally Posted by 16b441khz
Although I imagine Moses to be more of a Gabba fan, so maybe the musical selection would tell you. :p
And these are the National Institute of Health & Safety (American organisation) safe dosages :
With my own eyes (and shamefully, on occasion without protection) and ears I have monitored venues just hitting 102dB SPL (liquor licensing had them capped at 103 so the bar manager wanted them as loud as legally justifiable), festivals at 88db SPL at the mix position (30 metres from the stage) and once I mixed a carols service at a megachurch for a mate - 97dB SPL with 3 VTEC arrays (not direct sound only - the congregation was singing it's guts out).Code:LEVEL NIOSH MAX TIME
> 115 dB SPL NONE
115 dB SPL 28 seconds
112 dB SPL 56 seconds
109 dB SPL 1 minute 52 seconds
106 dB SPL 3 minutes 45 seconds
103 dB SPL 7 minutes 30 seconds
100 dB SPL 15 minutes
97 dB SPL 30 minutes
94 dB SPL 1 hour
91 dB SPL 2 hours
88 dB SPL 4 hours
85 dB SPL 8 hours
82 dB SPL 16 hours
80 dB SPL 24 hours (continuous)
And I'm not trying to nitpick, but I don't think you 'build up a tolerance', I think you screw your hearing and thereafter don't notice your ears ringing as much from the most recent event due to the tinnitus you develop the first few goes around. :rolleyes:
I use Wav files all the time, they are the best!
you guys obviously weren't at the Tiesto show where he started out spinning MP3's, the crowd instantaneously erupted in a murderous rage and we held his wife hostage until he put some WAV files on.
In all seriousness, to the average person the sound quality may not be noticeable, but I use WAV files because (as previously mentoned) it's one less thing to worry about, why leave it to chance?
Sure the crowd wasn't in a murderous rage cos it was Tiesto? :p:DQuote:
Originally Posted by darkside
the difference between a proper 320k and a wav will be much smaller than the other sources of error in the music chain.
I can not believe that people still saying wav over 320 kbps in a club soundsystem. Till this day i have not met a person in a blind test to notice any difference between them, is all that audiophile crap. Remember do a true blind test and you will be amazed, unless you have monkey or dog ears. Better yet do a blind test with 10 persons from the crowd even in a funktion one or nexo system and the more you will be amazed (I have done it). More stupid is the statement that for festivals is better wav what all the people are smoking because i will llike to have some. It is like all the idiots swear that traktor sounds better in a 96 Khz output when they play wav or mp3 ripped from audio cd´s it is like saying you have a 1 lt. bottle of wine and if you put it in a 2 liter container you have more wine