Advantages or disadvantages of using the waveform

For a while I have been asking myself about the disadvantages (or advantages) of being able to see the waveform of a track. As a digital Dj, I think I may depend too much of it and feel like this is just wrong; sometimes I like to hide the decks in Traktor an rely only in the beat phrase counter and of course my ears.
For us that have learned only digital mixing we may have to fight against the desire of using the waveform as a guide since (I feel) you lose sight of the music (those vibrations that go into the brain thru your ears) and mix according to some visual unreliable guide. in other words we have to get used to feel and manipulate the textures of music thru EQ´s and ears only.
Anyway I just wanted to see what people thinks of this.

I just like being able to see where breakdowns happen and so on, instead of trying to memorize every tracks arrangement. Are you talking about actually beatmatching and lining the beats up?

i really dont rely on the wave form, but i've seen alot of dj look at phase and rely on that big time. What i think is pretty cool on serato waveform was the colors they use for the kicks & snare/claps..it does help out.

TBH i really dont care how the dj does it and long as the music is good and there is no trainwreck he can have the sync button on all nite.

yeah gotta agree with Nephew, sometimes you just see a sweet break in the track and you can see it coming and therefore prepare for an epic drop. without this it would sneak up on you and you'd miss a cool opportunity to change up the mix.

Not really, I think I'm talking about beat phrasing, Break downs and build ups can be expected according to the structure of the music. For a long time Dj's relied on the ability of counting beats (and I do think everyone should learn about phrasing), they didn't have a visual guide. As I see it, people that has learned only thru digital tools do not learn some basic stuff that should come even before you learn how to use effects and such (this happened to me and it's something I'm trying to correct).
When I'm not using the waveform things might not go as I expect but they work somehow, the structure of music has a meaning when you are mixing and dj's should be able to use it.
This issue has been discused before, whatever happens if you have a gig and you don't have a waveform avaliable? will you get stuck because you can't guide yorself only thru the music?

well, since i come from a strong musical background i learned about phrasing, layering, all that good stuff, early on. but i think it depends on the music you're talking about, and mixing. for instance techno has quite a strict phrasing pattern, but with experimental producers nowadays, you get some dnb that's all over the place and there might be 4 breakdowns, all different, and 5 different drum patterns cutting in and out. sure DJs used to do that-- people used to live in caves too. i think one part of digital DJing is realizing that you can't be just like the vinyl boys, you have the technology, use it! it can only make you a better dj, really. don't rely on it, but add it's abilities to your arsenal.

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Originally Posted by djhipnotikk

well, since i come from a strong musical background i learned about phrasing, layering, all that good stuff, early on. but i think it depends on the music you're talking about, and mixing. for instance techno has quite a strict phrasing pattern, but with experimental producers nowadays, you get some dnb that's all over the place and there might be 4 breakdowns, all different, and 5 different drum patterns cutting in and out. sure DJs used to do that-- people used to live in caves too. i think one part of digital DJing is realizing that you can't be just like the vinyl boys, you have the technology, use it! it can only make you a better dj, really. don't rely on it, but add it's abilities to your arsenal.

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+1

certainly makes mixing a track you don't now to well nice and easy!

but yeah i crtainly know what you mean about the wavefrom on the screen.
i been trying not to look at the screen as much as possible, only when loading a track and maybe checking if my effects are all good and that. this has been said before, like we don't wanna look like we're checking our emails while djing! doesnt look natural

Trust me mate, I've been doing this whole DJ thing for over 10 years now, and being able to look and see what's happening in the song ahead of time is the greatest thing digital DJing has to offer me.

Plus some producers have thrown the rules on phasing out the door. Luciano comes to mind as one, as do a lot of the minimal house/techno guys do.

And with out fast music is coming out these days it'd a godsend being able to toss a tune in a mix without having to memorize it's arrangement, instead of back in the day where you could get away with playing the same 30 records for a whole year and learn them inside out.

Theres no right or wrong answer to this. You do what ya gotta do to get by.

Anybody using 4 decks that says they dont look at the waveform is a liar plain and simple.
Waveform, sync whatever its all there to enable the DJ to concentrate on other stuff.

Its very obvious (to me) when a DJ is using the technology to compensate for lack of talent, creativity, song selection. These kinds of DJs stick out like fuck.

A DJ with real talent who actually uses the Tech to its potential (B33SON for example) also sticks out like fuck, for the right reason.

sorry i forgot where i was going with this post im silly drunk and i should shut up,. what was i saying

Bah.

The visual view helped me a lot in learning about phrasing and generic track structure, but at least with the music I mix it is only a guide, you still need to listen for the actual point to drop on.

Ie you can see that a beat 32 bars out from the next drop is coming in about 30 - 4 seconds, but its is in the middle of a highly compessed section of track so you cant see the actual point, so you have to listen for it

I think it is probably the biggest advantage of digital DJ'ing though.

The beat to cue is an awesome function, there is a temptation to stare at your monitor but if you have your gear setup right you will look at the screen alot less. Being able to see the wav-form, your cue points, your loops - all visually is very handy :) Just make a mental effort not to look at the screen all the time and your good.

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Originally Posted by Karlos Santos

sorry i forgot where i was going with this post im silly drunk and i should shut up,. what was i saying

Bah.

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Start drinking dammit! ;)

Yeah my Monday gig is always a p*ss up so sorry about the tail off in my last post.
[back on topic]

BentoSan makes a good point, i could probably use more cues and loops and all the shizzle that comes with Traktor but im not a head down in the laptop kinda guy. You gotta balance all those features with actually being a DJ who should (IMHO) have some presence, personality and connection with the crowd not just look like your sending emails (as someone else has said).

Not drunk now, just have a hangover and my housemate is playing the violin in my kitchen. Seriously , this could be the UKs first case of 'Death By Stringed Instrument"

I use the phase meter often. I just don't trust it

Everytime I stop mixing with my ears I get into trouble. i.e. DJ Donkey-Down-The-Stairs gets on the decks.

Visual waveform representation is just another tool to help you dj. There are cd decks that show them as some vinyl djs also look at the grooves of the record to see the drops and changes on the music´s intensity. So as on anything you need to know how to use all the tools and not depend only on one. In my opinion each one need to see how you can use it the best for your workflow.