Noob! CDJ's or DVS?

Bit of a noob to DJ'ing. I play guitar and have always bought good equipment as it can be a false economy to buy otherwise, plus the resale value is nowhere near what you bought it for in the first place. I have dabbled with software such as Traktor Pro, Ableton Live, and Serato. Out of the three I prefer Traktor Pro for mixing tracks. However, that is all I have been able to do using only a mouse, keyboard, and midi keyboard. So, I'm looking to purchase some hardware.

I am clear in my mind that I will not buy a midi controller - period. That leaves either CDJ's or turntables. I am finding it difficult working out exactly what I want and how much it will cost. On the one hand I could buy two turntables, a mixer, and then the traktor DVS package. Any suggestions on what mixer to get with such a set up would be much appreciated.

The alternative would be to get CDJ's - possibly the CDJ 400's. I understand that the CD decks themselves can connect with Traktor. What I am unsure of in this particular scenario is, "would I be able to get a mixer with the same connectivity, without the need for purchasing an audio interface for the mixer?"

It all depends on how much you want or intend to spend... First off what laptop do you have to use (specs)?

It's enough to run traktor and the audio interface (if it were required), so I'm not really clear what the question is. I was more looking for advice on the rest of my set up.

if your looking to start up djing, numark offers the iBattlePack as well as the CDJ in a box. Both are basically DJ packages filled with what one needs in order to begin djing. The iBattlePack two Numark direct drive turntables (which is what you want, don't get belt drive) with an entry level numark mixer with an ipod dock. If you decide to DJ vinyl I highly recommend getting the Traktor DVS package.

iBattlePack: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...All-Categories

The other option, if you wish to go CDJ, is the Numark CDJ in a Box. Basically same thing as the iBattlePack except with entry level CDJs...and a mixer without an ipod dock. However I suggest spending a little more money and just ditching the Numark NDX-200s for NDX-400s. Much better.

CD-DJ in a Box: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...at=0&_from=R40

It all depends on your budget...there are some pretty good mixers out there but they are 150-200 bucks and over. Anything below usually won't last you that long, and you'll be wanting to upgrade.

Ohh, and, I'm wondering, why don't you favor midi controllers? :P I love them. Portable, easy to setup, not so expensive, etc.

I think I would avoid the cd-dj in a box and the iBattle pack. Buy cheap, buy twice. what's your budget? do you expect to ever learn how to scratch? do you have experience with using turntables or cd decks?

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Originally Posted by Ocie

I think I would avoid the cd-dj in a box and the iBattle pack. Buy cheap, buy twice. what's your budget? do you expect to ever learn how to scratch? do you have experience with using turntables or cd decks?

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yeah your right, they aren't exactly the best piece of kit. my friend, however, bought the battlepack and he said he loved using em' as a beginner. so, really, just your preference. like ocie said if you do purchase those, i wouldn't doubt you'll want to upgrade early on.

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Originally Posted by Ocie

I think I would avoid the cd-dj in a box and the iBattle pack. Buy cheap, buy twice. what's your budget? do you expect to ever learn how to scratch? do you have experience with using turntables or cd decks?

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...about £1000, no more. i'm looking to buy used. worst comes to the worst, i can re-sell at more or less what i bought it for. i'm not sure if i ever would learn to scratch. i am more into EDM than hip hop. i have never touched a turntable before. my only thought was that it might be cheaper to buy some used SL 1210's, a mixer, and the traktor DVS than used CDJ's, a mixer, and still wind up buying a DVS (timecode cd's) or an audio interface for traktor.

in hindsight i missed out on some CDJ 400's and a DJM 400 for £770 on ebay. there was something in the back of my mind that stopped me from bidding any further than i already had done. i am expecting a lot, perhaps, but i would like to get something that is as close to 'future proof' as possible, albeit used.

i don't really know how much a used audio 4 or audio 8 run for. once i got my hands on a sl3, i never looked back.

its easily feasible to get your hands on a pair of MKIIs or maybe M3Ds and a decent mixer for that budget.

you mentioned traktor certified mixers. they are out there, but no clue what ones are. if you expect to eventually get gigs in a club or bar, more than likely they dj booth won't have a traktor certified mixer. just keep your eyes open for a used interface.

besides, nothing wrong with getting decks and a mixer first and learning with vinyl. I went the route and it's helped me immensely.

I came under the same dilemma when I was looking to purchase my gear.

I decided to go with the turntables, mixer, serato over buying a mixer and CDJ's.

The big thing for me, was having a computer. I was using a desktop for years, and hadn't planned on getting a new computer anytime soon, because besides for DJing, it did everything I wanted. And then it died, and I had a choice of getting another one, or upgrading to a laptop that I could use for DJing. So I decided to get a Macbook Pro.

With having the computer in mind, and really liking the feel of turntables, I decided to go with my current choice. Sometimes I still wonder if just having CD's/USB sticks would be easier, but honestly I really love the setup. And it's a setup that I can see in most clubs around still, and I can still always just use the time-code CD's with CDJ's if I need to.

There is just something sexy, undeniable, and irresistible about spinning on vinyl. Time-code or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Ocie

nothing wrong with getting decks and a mixer first and learning with vinyl. I went the route and it's helped me immensely.

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^ This

I started out with Vinyl and am glad I did, you learn the basics of beatmatching by ear without all the waveform digital readouts, BPM meters, sync, or other bells n whistles. However, Vinyls are not cheap so in the long run using a DVS system with MP3's from a laptop is the better way to go.

Just make sure your computer can handle it, my last laptop was supposed to be able to handle a DVS system but I had nothing but audio dropouts and popping/clicking even after optimizing it for audio performance.

One more thing, buy used! The value stays the same so if after a few months you decide DJing isn't for you, you don't lose any real value. I made the mistake of buying my initial DJ setup new, spent 1,500$+ only to sell it all 12 months later for half that :(

I took the plunge and bought two of these bad boys off ebay:

Technics SL 1200 mk 2 industry standard DJ turntable. Some cosmetic marks but works perfectly. No lid. Includes headshell and Stanton cartridge. also limited edition technics slipmats thrown in - all for £260.

I hope I've done the right thing, but it was local and appears to be cheap assuming that they won't have to be serviced. I must admit I have no idea what to look out for when I see them. Plus at that sort of price, if I were to knock the person down any further they might tell me to take a running jump.

I agree that buying used makes sense. Mixers, CDJ's (if I get them) will all be bought second-hand. It costs too much otherwise, plus there's also the resale value to consider. I did exactly the same when I was playing guitar - yet another expensive hobby!! :)

Jumping in late, CDJs are either insanely expensive or complete crap. If you're on a budget and don't specifically want to play with cheap CDJs, buy a DVS or go controller. Given your preferences, you're down to a DVS……and that's the direction you went, which is awesome.

Now, the big choice…Traktor Scratch TA6 or a Rane SL1/2.

I do wonder what "cheap" CDJ's are. If it's anything with a number higher than 900 then it is almost certainly out of my price range, even used. I had thought CDJ 400's were decent, but I might be wrong.

Audio Interface-wise, it's going to be Traktor A6 rather than Serato/Rane SL1/2.

You made a good choice, I got 2 1210 mk2's for the same price and am super happy with them. They are actually very easy to service yourself if you're having any problems. Hopefully they will be good to go though! As for a mixer, I found a used Ecler Nuo 2 for £180. The upfaders are not at all linear but I'm used to them now and happy with my choice. I went for vinyl but you can find a second hand Traktor box for pretty cheap as well.

You can find pairs of used CDJ 800 MK2's going for $800 all day (usually plus shipping). Matter of fact in the Buy/Sell forum a guy is selling a pair for $800+shipping right now.

I would still get 400s over 800s personally. I think cheap is like 200, 100, 350. Those all are garbage cdjs to me. The cheapest I would go is a pair of 400s or 800s.

For decent to best it would be some 1000s, 850s, 900s, 2000s

I think it's moot, but I think the 400s are crap. I'd think about 800s or 850s, but 1000+ is where they get decent. 900s are at the wrong price point to be usable. But I also would never use Rekordbox on a computer…the whole point of CDJs is not having to have a computer while spending less on tracks than Vinyl.

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Originally Posted by shifter47

You made a good choice, I got 2 1210 mk2's for the same price and am super happy with them. They are actually very easy to service yourself if you're having any problems. Hopefully they will be good to go though! As for a mixer, I found a used Ecler Nuo 2 for £180. The upfaders are not at all linear but I'm used to them now and happy with my choice. I went for vinyl but you can find a second hand Traktor box for pretty cheap as well.

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Looking at Ebay (UK) the A6 or whatever it is (i forget the number) is £249 which is the recommended retail price everywhere it seems! :(

Anyhow. I picked them up. They are in great condition, although I am slightly worried about the pitch controls being on the way out. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I imagine at the worst it's going to cost me an extra £15 per TT to sort that out. Now that I have them I am looking at mixers. Any suggestions? I'm looking at possibly A&H as I know they have a good reputation.

42...62...92?? Silver or Graphite. I hear the Silver Mixers are the best since the graphite ones are made in Japan or somewhere, not in the UK.

The guy I bought the TT's from said that the Behringer DXM700 (?) might be worth a look.

A lot of the silver ones are made in China as well. I've only owned a UK-made one, so IDK if the chinese ones are actually worse, but I've heard bad things.

IMHO, Vestax is the king of budget mixers. A&H does their thing very well, but it's not for everybody…the upfaders are really slow…basically there's no volume change until you're 80% of the way up the fader. It's perfectly doable, but some people hate it. Ecler makes great mixers, but their EQs sound different from everyone else's. Rane's are absolutely awesome, IMHO, and there are a lot of smaller brands that you'll rarely see that are really good.

What are you looking for in a mixer?

And don't buy Behringer. The DDM4000 is supposed to be decent, but you can get a much better mixer for it's price. Behringer kind of = crap, or at least it has for a long time.

On reflection it might have been a second hand Serato box that I saw. If you have some records it might be worth just waiting it out until one comes up, otherwise you might have to splash out. Keep an eye on gumtree as well. You get people selling their entire DJ kit but if you call and ask they will usually sell the bits separately, so you might be able to get a cheap DVS box on there.

I already mentioned the Ecler Nuo 2 mixer that I have and love. Before that I tried 2 Xone 22's and both were broken on arrival. These A&H guys are supposed to be making the best and 'industry standard' gear around but they only really care about the top models, my advice is to avoid unless you're spending some serious cash (I don't know the model numbers I'm afraid).

As for sound quality, the Ecler and the A&H both sound fantastic. The A&H is what you're used to if you go clubbing a lot, so is instantly satisfying. However, after a few days I fell in love with the Ecler. It sounds punchier and more aggressive. Both of them blew my friends Behringer out of the water.

I will add here that I agree with mostapha about the EQs on the Ecler. The high/mid crossover point is very high, so the high EQ actually does very little. The mid range is very wide as a result, which is great for controlling vocals/main synths but you do get hats leaking in most of the time. The low eq is very nice, the mid/low crossover is perfect in my opinion. Overall I wouldn't say the EQ on Ecler is bad, just quite different from most other mixers you will use. If you're frequently playing out on A&H/Pioneer, you might want to stick to them.

I honestly think A&H has the best EQs, but only on the 62 and 92…and I think the 464 they used to make. The 4-band EQ they used on them has the high-mid right where the punch of snares and hi-hats reside, so it's really easy to blend b/t two grooves. It's the only thing I miss from my 62, and it's a great reason to use Traktor Scratch over SSL…just to map some MIDI control to that one EQ knob. The 42 and 22 are IMHO just trying to capitalize on their name, and the db2 and db4, while kind of awesome in their own ways, are just not up to par for what I know A&H is capable of. But, again, that's something the whole world seems to disagree with me about.

If I had my druthers, I'd have that one EQ band and an HPF on every channel and nothing else. But, I'm weird. My dream mixer is also an all-digital rotary with a tube output gain stage…which is never going to happen.

How about....

http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/al...order/99887145

Bit concerned about the fact that it has been opened up, and there has been some crackling from the faders (supposedly fixed), but it is cheap and local. What do you think? Hard to tell from a picture I know. :001_unsure:

The fact that he says he's opened it up and replaced parts says to me that he is confident in his own ability and it is all working fine. Go and try it out if you're worried, you said it's local and there is no obligation to buy.

I think the xone 92 might be out of my budget as I'm looking at £600 - 700 used :crying:

on a different note: might seem like a silly question, but why would I need 6 channels if more often that not I'm going to be using TSP2?

I had thought of going for the vestax pcv 275 since it's cheap.

Depending on your budget, the DJM-700 or DJM-250 could work pretty well. The 250 runs for like $340, and has virtually everything you'd need for mixing. The 700 runs around $900 now, and has a pretty solid effects unit on it, but only one filter. Both are pretty much tanks though.

if you are looking at getting tsp2 and a t channel mixer why not go with a djm-t1? It was a toss up between that and the nexus for me but to eliminate switching cables in the middle of a show i went with the nexus...

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Originally Posted by wampaone

if you are looking at getting tsp2 and a t channel mixer why not go with a djm-t1? It was a toss up between that and the nexus for me but to eliminate switching cables in the middle of a show i went with the nexus...

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A bit on the pricey side given that I will have to purchase a DVS as well, so whether the mixer is traktor certified or not isn't really that important.

Came very close to buying a Xone 42 for £440 used. I really can't decide whether to push the boat out and try and pick up a used Xone 92. I've seen one that looks in v good condition for £750. The four band eq sounds like something I really could put to use. I know from messing around with Traktor without any hardware that I preferred to keep to loops and using the EQ, not so much the effects. I honestly do not know whether I would miss any effects or whether they are just gimmicky. Decisions, decisions!

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Originally Posted by 7ZUSTY

A bit on the pricey side given that I will have to purchase a DVS as well, so whether the mixer is traktor certified or not isn't really that important.

Came very close to buying a Xone 42 for £440 used. I really can't decide whether to push the boat out and try and pick up a used Xone 92. I've seen one that looks in v good condition for £750. The four band eq sounds like something I really could put to use. I know from messing around with Traktor without any hardware that I preferred to keep to loops and using the EQ, not so much the effects. I honestly do not know whether I would miss any effects or whether they are just gimmicky. Decisions, decisions!

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negative my man ... the DJM-t1 comes equipped with traktor scratch duo 2 which traktor will give you a FREE upgrade to the Pro version per their new software lineup. you can get a great 2 channel mixer and your DVS for about $850. I do enjoy A&H mixers as well but this is an all in one piece that is pretty insane with all the sample decks and Traktor FX built right in.

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Originally Posted by 7ZUSTY

I had thought of going for the vestax pcv 275 since it's cheap.

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Those mixers are fun. Make sure you can deal with the EQs on that one…I think they're like +/- 16dB, which is an insane amount of boost and won't make you happy if you want full kill. The 170, 17a, 180, 185, and a few others are very similar designs, mostly just with different EQs, IIRC.

I'd buy a vestax over a Pioneer any day…even if you're comparing models that aren't in the same league…but I'm a vestax fanboy.

The price for that 62 seems high to me, but that's because I bought and sold one for around the same price (in USD) that was in great condition apart from having a blue face plate and some gain controls that needed cleaning.

Don't quote me on this, because I'm not an expert…but I did talk to A&H's American tech support when I noticed those gains were cracking……see if you can figure out why he replaced channels. Crackling should have been solved by cleaning the faders + pots. I'd infer liquid damage, but I'm not the least bit confident in that…and if it's fixed, it's fixed. A&H makes it easy to replace channels. It's one of their selling points.

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Originally Posted by wampaone

negative my man ... the DJM-t1 comes equipped with traktor scratch duo 2 which traktor will give you a FREE upgrade to the Pro version per their new software lineup. you can get a great 2 channel mixer and your DVS for about $850. I do enjoy A&H mixers as well but this is an all in one piece that is pretty insane with all the sample decks and Traktor FX built right in.

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Not at all. The DJM costs about £1279, so it isn't really a consideration. If I were to get it at the price you mentioned. I sort of see what you mean, especially with regards to not needing an audio interface nor the software, but because of the actual retail price (unless i'm not looking in the right place!) I could get a Xone 92 used and the DVS for less. I would be curious to know how do you get your turntables working with Traktor using the DJM T1?

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Originally Posted by 7ZUSTY

Not at all. The DJM costs about £1279, so it isn't really a consideration. If I were to get it at the price you mentioned. I sort of see what you mean, especially with regards to not needing an audio interface nor the software, but because of the actual retail price (unless i'm not looking in the right place!) I could get a Xone 92 used and the DVS for less. I would be curious to know how do you get your turntables working with Traktor using the DJM T1?

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Guitar Center will A) typically have 15% off deals at least every other month if not more often also use amazon.com or any other search engine for products for sale and GC will price match... The DJM-T1 is a 2 channel mixer with the DVS interface built in plus it has sample decks and looping and FX from Traktor right at your fingertips... and it come with TSP duo (automatically upgraded by NI to Pro version as of 5/30. just hook up your decks, ground them to the mixer and run the software on your laptop. its basically a Pioneer version that uses traktor of the popular RaneTm-57 (or newer 61 model)... comes with control vinyl and cd's as well. hell im about ready to keep my nexus at the sudio and buy a djm-t1 for home studio just from talking about it so much...

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Originally Posted by mostapha

Those mixers are fun. Make sure you can deal with the EQs on that one…I think they're like +/- 16dB, which is an insane amount of boost and won't make you happy if you want full kill. The 170, 17a, 180, 185, and a few others are very similar designs, mostly just with different EQs, IIRC.

I'd buy a vestax over a Pioneer any day…even if you're comparing models that aren't in the same league…but I'm a vestax fanboy.

The price for that 62 seems high to me, but that's because I bought and sold one for around the same price (in USD) that was in great condition apart from having a blue face plate and some gain controls that needed cleaning.

Don't quote me on this, because I'm not an expert…but I did talk to A&H's American tech support when I noticed those gains were cracking……see if you can figure out why he replaced channels. Crackling should have been solved by cleaning the faders + pots. I'd infer liquid damage, but I'm not the least bit confident in that…and if it's fixed, it's fixed. A&H makes it easy to replace channels. It's one of their selling points.

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I still can't decide. There aren't many used Xone92's knocking about at the moment at a good price. I'm tempted by the Vestax, but not sure if it's the right choice since I'm not going to be scratching or doing the whole-turntablism-thing. I'm more EDM (House, DnB, Dubstep, Jungle, UK Garage) so can't help but feel that A&H or Pioneer are the obvious choice.

Budget:

Vestax:

PMC-05ProIII VCA

Pioneer:
DJM 600

-or-

Push the boat out:

Vestax:

PMC-05ProIV BLK

Pioneer:

DJM 700/800