i think so, and the sales figures suggest that I am correct...
http://spektakx.com/2012/05/16/the-g...midi-backlash/
i think so, and the sales figures suggest that I am correct...
http://spektakx.com/2012/05/16/the-g...midi-backlash/
I don't have any buyer's remorse with my S2, I definitely plan to upgrade down the road. But for what I paid, my S2 has more than surpassed my expectations, can you really expect something that only costs $400 to be a top dollar performer?
This could be read many ways, especially the sales figures. For one, much like your turntables and a mixer you used to buy, once you got your setup you really wouldn't be out there buying another one. After spending $899 on an S4 plus another $1500 on a new laptop, I would be pretty content with that for awhile I'd say.
Also, all this could mean is that the great "DJ Hype" is dying down, and people who thought they wanted to be a DJ are selling their new gear off on the cheap, so now the second hand or "Craigslist" market is blowing up with good deals that there isn't really a need to go out and buy gear new.
Just my thoughts and perspective.
@JasonBay - Good points made there pal. That article actually reads like the author has a serious chip on his shoulder!
Anyone who does their research correctly buys what they want and will generally stick with it. if they don't then its because they didn't do their research!
Your "DJ Hype" comment is right on the money!!
Part of what i think is happening is that there isn't enough "development" with midi tricks/styles whatever. people try it once, and decide DVS will perform better, but I think we can find ways to use midi to match and go beyond DVS, even with jog wheel static-tablism
I'm doing stuff like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QES2-t56QyY
What sales figures? You don't seem to quite any in the article?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckner
The final paragraph is odd as well, are you saying that if NI put a spinning LED circle on the next-gen controller ala Pioneer CDJs, people would start to accept them finally?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckner
Man, if that's all it takes what is NI waiting for!
ummm... just wanna throw out there that Porter Robinson uses an s4 and just that in his setup and seems to be doing well :) and madeon uses 2 launchpads i believe :3
We already have the Numark NS6 and 4Trak, and Pio S1/T1/Ergo with spinning lights, and the Numarks are built like tanks. The guy is just venting his frustration... it's still just as ridiculous as before, 10 years ago they had the same thing going with the Technics guys slamming CDJs for being overpriced toys.
I agree with Jason, there's a lot of people who got Mixtrack Pros just to try this DJ'ing thing out because they're so cheap, and end up selling them - but nobody drops 1000 currency units on a controller unless they're serious. I've yet to see this flood of almost mint S4's in classifieds.
More tired attitudes from washed up, talentless hacks who are still fascinated with manual beat matching and other elementary tasks.
yeah but poter is a fucking tool DJ, yeah great producer but not even close to a great dj. anyways back on subject i somewhat agree with the article. its no longer about making the best product, but making money from people who think they want to become djs.
99% of all DJ products since the beginning have been about making money over quality. NOTHING is different.
I've got nothing more to say on this topic except to say that guy can't write for shit.
Is the Behringer product mentioned even available yet? I don't really understand what the author's saying, to be honest; I mean, I get the overall point, but if you look at specifics there are no reasons for anything given, it's just opinion after opinion, not all of them even consistent (e.g. slamming NI for build quality while touting a Behringer controller) or even intelligible (recycled plastic?). And I think the overall issue of people wanting to see a spinning disk has nothing to do with controllers - that pretty much was an issue since the industry moved to CDJs (which are still the standard by a long shot).
/\ world class djQuote:
Originally Posted by Invoke
I just wish I didn't add to that shitty blogs click count.
Just curious what sales figures you are talking about?
I've seen people go for the Pioneer controllers instead of an S4 for this reason alone (still facepalming)Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonBay
The flashing lights on the CDJ 1000s are pretty slick ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by padi_04
I think we all can see that the article is poorly written, and lacks of sources to support many statements. The truth is that MIDI is not dying anytime soon, and that isn't news either. What we can see is that companies keep investing to cater to a very solid market of DJs and Producers that is rapidly growing. For many DJs who only use TTs or CDJs, seen a kid putting a better set with a mixtrack pro can result rather frustrating mostly because of the amount of money invested on equipment. Bleh.
Show me da money!
I don't see any sales figures. I don't see any coherent arguments with factual backing.
I do see intentionally controversial blogspam. Why is reading this on your blog any better than reading it here?
Why are you loving the Behringer CMD kit when it's not out yet?
Just a bit confused here.
The problem is that the kid with the mixtrack rarely does put on a better show...and if he did he would probably buy better and more reliable equipment from the money that he makes at gigs...but since he does not get more than 1 gig per club he does not have money to buy better equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by aGhost
See where I'm going with this? Usually the kid with the mixtrack is the only kid that thinks he is killing a set.
I've seen ALOT of ppl with midi controllers (especially cheap ones) put on really poor sets, I haven't seen too many dj's on DVS or cdjs without a computer put on a bad set.
So this backlash from the author may just be that he is sick of hearing shitty sets when he wants to go out....kinda like me most of the time.
Edit: I'm interested to hear responses.
Can't really argue with Rukks to be honest, pretty spot on for the most part
So blame the kid who wants to get the experience out of the bedroom and get paid while doing it? In almost all the threads I see about "its my first gig", it always has the response of "do it for the experience". This is also enforced by the responses to some other popular threads/questions of "learning the crowd is an important aspect". You have to play for the crowd right? Maybe its the venue that is the problem? I am just playing devils advocate, but isn't it the responsibility of promoter/proprietor to know who/what they are paying for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukks
Oh boy. Here we go again.
The financial and technical entry point for DJ'ing has dropped and because of that it attracts more "get the girls"-type-of-DJ's. The lame ones quit, the creative/good/whateveryoumaycallit keep on going. Natural selection.
And please don't go on about MIDI controllers feeling cheap. I work with 4 CDJ2000's weekly and for €1700 a pop, they feel awful.
I mean, really, it took about 2 months for the jog adjustment to break on one of 'em and we rarely use that. The Rekordbox hotcue loading is shit (takes at least 1 second to load a pre set hotcue? wtf), HID support is shit, Rekordbox ProDJ link is dodgy and slow, etc.
For the €750 or so you spend on a S4, it's pretty OK made.
And charging €1800 for a DJM900 is crazy. It's "just a 4 channel mixer with a sound card and some FX.. Should be more like DJM€900 amirite?!"
Equipment doesn't make a DJ better in ANY CASE. I've seen people rock two CDJ400s and play a killer set and people spinning 4x CDJ2000 and a DJM900 with Traktor and a X1 and still suck.
People with creativity last long. Equipment really doesn't matter.
This was the case 20 years ago, was the case 10 years ago and guess what. It still is the case today.
Oh, and brand name gear is more expensive, but since when is that news..?
Yeah i think the overall article is pretty much a waste of time.
Equipment isnt really the issue these days. More than anything DJs are imo classified into 2 catagories your either good or your bad.
There is varying degrees of bad...to varying degrees of good. There is no "grey" area of djing.
Now There is still a huge stigma where i live regarding controllers/traktor/sync, but i always shut everyone up when after my set.
But at the same time I understand where the majority are coming from. Having some tool bag slamming 135 Hardhouse at 10pm on an electro night, using sync but songs not in phase, and trainwrecking because he is using sync and his beatgrids arnt setup really really damages the community of people that do use controllers well.
I have also on the flipside side seen DJs using 900s and train wreck multiple times...with songs that were in the same tempo...I mean really..GTFO.
The Equipment doesnt make the DJ.
I want the 2 min of my life it took to read that article back...
As midi controllers evolve I am sure we will see some amazing talent develop along with them. Just like all other aspects of life people don't like change. I for one am choosing the midi controller route and I have no regrets. Besides all great things are contraversial at first!
I agree with creativity coming with midi controllers but the game is not set up that way right now.Midi controllers are coming because of artists chopping up their own songs and using them as they should be used...basically with ableton.
Very very very few club dj's are able to do this on a weekly basis because it is just so much time and effort to make a new complex set every week when you have a residency.
I feel like alot of beginning dj's that aspire to be in clubs and stuff think that making these complex sets is the way to go about it until they actually try to do it every week. There is a reason these artist that use complex midi setups travel and have a new audience, because they don't have to do much to tweak their sets.
And I have nothing against ppl gaining experience and what not, I can tell ppl who have good mixing skills and are trained but just don't know the crowd that night compared to some kid playing an obvious directors cut youtube rip...i mean come on. Some ppl just need to step back and think about weather or not 300 ppl would want to listen to them playing music and getting paid for it.
Regardless of the gear they use.
The truth of the matter is that the DJ products category is growing. What's even more interesting is that the category overall is growing when sales in all but 2 of the sub-categories are shrinking rapidly. It used to be that the "bread and butter" categories (like turntables, CD players, and mixers) all took roughly 20% of the overall market. Now controllers have close to 50% of the market and everything else splits a much smaller piece of the pie. But controllers are growing rapidly at a pace that outshines all of the other product categories by a huge margin.
The OP doesn't have access to any sales information, and that's why he didn't post any. There is only 1 company that tracks overall sales, and that's MI Sales Track. The data costs companies tens of thousands of dollars to obtain access to, and no one shares figures with anyone else because it would violate their agreement with MIST. Steve has neither the access or the money to obtain this data.
The OP positions himself as some kind of industry insider, visionary, and/or equipment designer. He is none of the above. He's a former beta tester for Stanton. He once had an inside track to a career, but he's alienated himself by making outrageous claims. And now he seems to believe that everyone owes him something (including all of you).
I'm only responding to this because this is the second time Steve Brown (spektakx. buckner, imfromthafuture, filespnr, etc) has called me out by name. I can promise you that you didn't enter into my head one single time when I was designing the CMD controllers for Behringer. The simple truth is that the platters on the Studio 4a are 6" because the layout would support that size. I knew that the Studio 4a needed to be 12" tall, because it needed to fit together with the other CMD modules. So I laid out all the transport and cue buttons and roughed in the mixer section and FX sections. From there I was able to determine how much room I would have for the platters.
I'm having this incredible feeling of Deja Vu.
This article kind of cements why Pioneer have such a market dominance: MIDI controllers are a massive step backwards from dedicated hardware, that's just a simple fact. In a DJ environment (not a production performance, Ableton workflow), having a dumb box of MIDI messages and a laptop is a huge technical disadvantage, bar cost. Current generation CDJs have technology (that 90% of DJs either don't understand or dont know exists) that completely invalidates the convenience brought by "Digital DJing." The problem is, the "average" DJ either doesn't care that they're shackled to a laptop, or doesn't play in an environment where it really matters, so companies keep churning out MIDI boxes, and Pioneer keeps its stranglehold.
If companies started creating cost effective hardware that actually competed with Pio's tech, ala Stanton and Denon, we could move to a new, much better trend, where the cost effective hardware takes on some of the laptop killing convenience. Maybe then the controller hype will end and we'll get some actually useful budget hardware. But as of now, the cheap MIDI train is chugging, spurned on by "controllerists" who have virtually no stage perception at all, and judge DJing platforms by the number of FX units that can be triggered at once.
[QUOTE=nem0nic;
I'm only responding to this because this is the second time Steve Brown (spektakx. buckner, imfromthafuture, filespnr, etc) has called me out by name. I can promise you that you didn't enter into my head one single time when I was designing the CMD controllers for Behringer. The simple truth is that the platters on the Studio 4a are 6" because the layout would support that size. I knew that the Studio 4a needed to be 12" tall, because it needed to fit together with the other CMD modules. So I laid out all the transport and cue buttons and roughed in the mixer section and FX sections. From there I was able to determine how much room I would have for the platters.[/QUOTE]
But your design totally fails because I like to have my crossfader above the mixer! Where's the innovation?????:drool:
Off topic but why is porter robinson a tool DJ??????
After seeing this guys controller designs I am left to wonder what gives him the right to criticize other designs?
Also - show us the sales numbers that you base the article on.
turn it upside down and invert the controls...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Gooch
Oh wait, is this the same dude who made that drama thread way back calling everyone out about trying to run Ean out of NAMM and going on some rant about stanton owing him something and him saving their products?Quote:
Originally Posted by nem0nic
That's the guy. One in the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xonetacular
Because someone is jealous that Porter gets more gigs :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Noriddim
I am all for people writing, hell, I even have a go from time to time. I admire this chap's passion but that's about where it ends.
Buchner/FileSpnr/Spatular: Please rethink what it is you are trying to do. You change you name and format but the message is still the same - i.e very confused. Don't mistake people commenting on your article saying "you're an idiot" with reader traction.