People that have done outdoor parties with no power, what have you used?

I'm organizing some parties that will be going from place to place on a trip and some location will have power and some won't. I'm trying to get a list of things together to have pretty damn good sound for about 100-200 people like on a beach, or camping, or whatever.

So far:

- Dj equipment (CDJs, DJM) etc.
- PA system
- Sub
- Amp
- Generator of sorts?
- Lights/Lighting rig

Is there anything I'm missing? Could you give some suggestions on the system itself? I've never really organized anything like this before so I'm not sure what size PA's, sub, or amp to get. Everything I've ever done has already been set up or in my home/house parties with monitors. Also will a generator be able to power all that? I'm going to try to research prices to rent and buy some of the stuff. I figured before I go blindly looking on the web, I ask you fine folks.

Well, there are all sizes of generators, so you should be able to find one that will fit your needs. Of course the really big ones aren't all that portable anymore. Definitely calculate the power consumption of everything you're gonna connect and leave some headroom.

these amps are efficient as hell: http://www.behringer.com/CN/products/NU6000.aspx

they have a DSP model too.

lights are amp hogs unless you can find LED's.

anything with heat (lights, amps, foggers) and/or motors (fans, motorized beams) is gonna put a heavy load on generators.

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Hmmm thanks for the info. I assumed I wouldn't be having some huge generator just cause I'm not powering a festival or anything. But a fairly decent sized generator will probably be needed.

Thanks for the amp recommendation. I'll look into it.

Its tough not really knowing what to do for something like this.

I would get a 10K watt generator at minimum. You will have to get a ground rod, copper wire (#6), and an "acorn" to properly ground it. Also will most likely need to make up a distribution box.

see if you can find any people that have played and/or setup sound recently at Burning Man Festival. With a nice simple LED light show and some high efficiency CLASS D amps you'd be surprised the stuff you can get pumping with a smaller generator.

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I would look into some tents to help protect everything from the elements.

Permits so the authorities don't make the whole thing a waste of time.

haha yeah we are sorting all those things out. I got a team of other people working on all that stuff. They just want me to figure out the djing part. We would likely have a small tent to protect the gear.

I will talk to some burning man people here in SF who set up the things.

Any recommendations on amps, PAs, subs? Size wise and brand?

I'm a noob at this outdoor stuff so its kinda overwhelming to figure it all out.

how loud are you looking to go? Earth shaking, or just loud enough to give it clear, yet talk-overable sound?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djlotus

I would get a 10K watt generator at minimum. You will have to get a ground rod, copper wire (#6), and an "acorn" to properly ground it. Also will most likely need to make up a distribution box.

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wicked overkill. I'm thinking thats like 3x the size he would ever need, I mean I dont know what his final load calculation will be, but thats like over 80 amps of power at 120v. Just as a reference for you, there are houses that have main services only rated at 60a. To the OP; most portable generators already have outlets set up for you, and are made so no supplemental grounding is needed, plug and go.

Outdoor events I've played at have used one of those Honda inverter generators. really portable and quiet for a small gathering of like minded individuals.

You will need a DB Board (if the Genni does not come with one) and power cabled.

LOADS....

Spares!.....you will always needs spares.

:)

I have been an electrician for 15 years, and done power for numerous outdoor venues. Better a little over kill than not have enough. No house built in the last 60 years has less than a 150 AMP main service. You need to be able to separate the monitors, forward sound, and lighting on separate circuits. You also need to be able to fault to the earth in case of problems, which when doing an outdoor gig, are too numerous to prepare for. Also need to provide GFCI circuits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manchild

wicked overkill. I'm thinking thats like 3x the size he would ever need, I mean I dont know what his final load calculation will be, but thats like over 80 amps of power at 120v. Just as a reference for you, there are houses that have main services only rated at 60a. To the OP; most portable generators already have outlets set up for you, and are made so no supplemental grounding is needed, plug and go.

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Not to get too off topic, but A) There are houses still being built w/ 100A services to this day, and in the last 60 years there were houses still being built w/ 60A services (maybe your area has different state ammendments or something). B) In this situation the generator does not need to be bonded to the ground. If the instructions in the manual say to do so, then you will have to, but I have yet to run into one that has said so. As long as the gas tank is bonded to the frame (yet to see one that isnt) and everything is cord and plug you do not need to. C) To me, 80 amps wouldnt be just a "little" over kill, but maybe having an extra 50-60 amps then neccesary is only a little over kill to you, I guess it just a matter of perception. In the end, its better to have extra, like you said.

To the OP; while GFCI protection is required by code, some portables will have have it built in, or you could just get cords or plug strips with built in GFCI protection. I personally wouldnt want GFCI in a live sound and lighting set up just because of the threat of nuisance tripping, but thats just me.

can't believe these only consume 1 WATT EACH !!!

you can string 30 of them for the load of a one 30 watt light bulb !

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=243-002

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@loverocket/mods - has someone hijacked your account ? .. 3 posts in a row with parts-express links = fishy...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deevey

@loverocket/mods - has someone hijacked your account ? .. 3 posts in a row with parts-express links = fishy...

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no. just got the new sneak peek sales flyer. sharing the savings with my DJTT friends.

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So I'd say it would be fairly loud. Not like earth shattering, but pretty dang loud.

Thanks for the info about the generators. I'll have to look into some that can produce that type of power.

I mean I'm looking at probably renting like CDJ 10002/2000s djm 800

PA speaker (no idea what size yet)
Amp, sub.

Lighting truss, and lights to go on it.

I can't let the cat out of the bag on the event I am throwing yet cause its confidential and I don't think my co-founder friend would want me to spill the beans. But we are looking at some locations that will either end up at outdoor locations, some will be power provided, some won't possibly. It depends on how we plan it. I need to create a budget for either buying or renting the equipment. I'm sure if I contacted these rental places they probably have a package deal that I could rent that would probably be fail safe, I'm assuming at least.

Regarding the generator, that was the only snag cause I'm not sure the places I could rent the DJ, sound and lighting equipment would also have generators available. I thought I may have to rent something like that from a hardware place or something.

Manchild, you are confusing watts with amps. I suggested a 10K generator referring to 10,000 watts, as that's how generators are sized. You could get all you need off of the 30 amp circuit provided, but would want to use a distribution box. From the list of what the OP had to work with and provide power for, I could never in a million years recommend a roll-behind generator.

As for the GFCI circuit, I was recommending them for everything but the circuits I listed. Circuits for general consumption such as portable lights, chargers, and other such, non-essential gear.


As far as grounding goes, I guess it's too important, unless it's your gear being used. then you want to protect it.

I mean like you said, all you might need is like 30a. You realize thats only 3600 watts @ 120v, right? 10,000 watts seems like a little overkill, no? A lot of portables around 3-5kw range come with multiple 120v 20a outlets all protected on their own breaker. No need for distribution panels and the time and money that goes into that.

As far as grounding goes, both hot leg coils off the generator are center tapped at a single point and then bonded to the frame of the generator, from the frame of the generator you usually get your ground (could technically come off the center tap too), and from the center tap you get your neutral. You won't get a better more stable ground if you bond it to the earth. Your equipment is no better off. This is basically how 1 phase transformers for houses are grounded too, except instead of bonding the hot legs that are center tapped to a frame, it goes straight from the center tap of the transformer to the earth. The earth now becomes a big conductor back to the source. In theory if you have a large enough fault to earth and the service neutral is cut or somehow not part of the fault, you could still get a short circuit and a breaker/fuse could trip/blow since the earth is now a conductor back to the source. Under normal circumstances, most of the current from a ground fault short circuit is going to pass thru the service neutral since that is going to have the least resistance.

Anyways, GFCI or even no GFCI's, in a cord and plug application like this, it just doesnt make sense to make the earth part of the grounding system for safety, and as for the protection of equipment, in this situation, it doesnt even impact it, as it's almost unrelated, as an earth bond and equipment ground are different. I mean even OSHA says you dont need to do this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guiltyblade

So I'd say it would be fairly loud. Not like earth shattering, but pretty dang loud.

Thanks for the info about the generators. I'll have to look into some that can produce that type of power.

I mean I'm looking at probably renting like CDJ 10002/2000s djm 800

PA speaker (no idea what size yet)
Amp, sub.

Lighting truss, and lights to go on it.

I can't let the cat out of the bag on the event I am throwing yet cause its confidential and I don't think my co-founder friend would want me to spill the beans. But we are looking at some locations that will either end up at outdoor locations, some will be power provided, some won't possibly. It depends on how we plan it. I need to create a budget for either buying or renting the equipment. I'm sure if I contacted these rental places they probably have a package deal that I could rent that would probably be fail safe, I'm assuming at least.

Regarding the generator, that was the only snag cause I'm not sure the places I could rent the DJ, sound and lighting equipment would also have generators available. I thought I may have to rent something like that from a hardware place or something.

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Sounds exciting. Are you planning for this to take place in or around the bay area? Keep me posted! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manchild

I mean like you said, all you might need is like 30a. You realize thats only 3600 watts @ 120v, right? 10,000 watts seems like a little overkill, no? A lot of portables around 3-5kw range come with multiple 120v 20a outlets all protected on their own breaker. No need for distribution panels and the time and money that goes into that.

As far as grounding goes, both hot leg coils off the generator are center tapped at a single point and then bonded to the frame of the generator, from the frame of the generator you usually get your ground (could technically come off the center tap too), and from the center tap you get your neutral. You won't get a better more stable ground if you bond it to the earth. Your equipment is no better off. This is basically how 1 phase transformers for houses are grounded too, except instead of bonding the hot legs that are center tapped to a frame, it goes straight from the center tap of the transformer to the earth. The earth now becomes a big conductor back to the source. In theory if you have a large enough fault to earth and the service neutral is cut or somehow not part of the fault, you could still get a short circuit and a breaker/fuse could trip/blow since the earth is now a conductor back to the source. Under normal circumstances, most of the current from a ground fault short circuit is going to pass thru the service neutral since that is going to have the least resistance.

Anyways, GFCI or even no GFCI's, in a cord and plug application like this, it just doesnt make sense to make the earth part of the grounding system for safety, and as for the protection of equipment, in this situation, it doesnt even impact it, as it's almost unrelated, as an earth bond and equipment ground are different. I mean even OSHA says you dont need to do this.

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Exhibit A why I relegate electrical tasks to electricians when it gets real. I literally understood about 5% of what you just wrote. I hear electrical burns sting...

LOL. the burns don't sting, but getting hot does if it's over 120v.

I know it's a little over kill but in my experience it's better that way. A lot of people prefer to not have the sound and lights on the same circuit yada yada yada.

Just what I would do that's all. I used to take a pull behind with me to the river and run my decks and a couple JBLs with no issues. Sounded like the OP needed more power than he realizes.

Get power conditioners... For Everything!

solar power!! forget generators, use the sun to power all your needs :D

Just actually finished doing an outdoor stage at a small festival.
Decent sized rig for 100-200 people. Could double up on the speakers if you where allowed to really push the sound, but that depends on your location and permitting. If you where to do that though, you'd like want to have a total of 9-10kW to play with.
We had:
Power:
7600W Gen
Tons of cabling
Sound:
2x 21000W subs
2x 800W mid-highs
2x Monitors
Gear:
DJM600
2x cdj1000
1 sub mixer to control actual volume
laptops
Lighting:
6 80W professional LED bars
1 projector
1 fog machine
1 carpet fan for fog machine
2 colour changing LED bulbs
1 desktop pc/monitor controlling VJ stuff

If you can afford CDJ-2000's you can probably afford something from these guys. LOL

http://www.makanipower.com

Well this was brought up a LONG time ago, in this thread: http://forum.djtechtools.com/showthread.php?t=31770

That being said, it's really going to take some calculations as to what you are going to be drawing for power. Or you can just get a generator that will be complete overkill and not have to worry about it, but it's not cheap to do so.

The super-quiet generators are probably something you're going to be after. As, generators can make a hell of a racket, and you don't want to have it completely competing with your sound.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...iet-generators

I don't really know the first thing about this kind of stuff. I really like the idea, and did look into it, but I have different priorities for myself than being able to have an outdoor mobile setup at the moment, so all I did was fill myself with knowledge and not act on it :P

A lot of those LED lights and such won't draw much power, but the brighter lights generally are NOT LED. So make sure you really keep an eye on what you're buying if you want to have it be able to run off of a generator.


.... also get some chains and padlock and some stupid heavy weights so people don't walk off with shit. Generators are made to be fairly easy to move, and they are expensive, and you can't trust people with that kind of thing unless you're on top of it the whole time.