OT: Sleep

Anybody here have the HORRIBLE habit of not getting any sleep...consistently?

I've got a 8:30-5:30 day job (plus a half day Saturday shift) and I usually end up asleep at around 12AM-1:30AM...daily. I have to be out of bed by 7AM.

Its starting to take it's tole (physically and mentally). So much so, I've found myself searching the net for control mechanisms.....something that would literally cut me off at a certain hour. The thing is that the night time is the time Im most active mentally and creatively overall. Ideas start to flow (and so does the wine) once darkness falls. I actually feel like Im missing something if I did not stay up searching the net for various bits of information or creating sounds in my room on the DAW.

One of my goals for 09 was getting sleep like the rest of the world does and it's not working out too well. At this point it is a bit of an addiction (in a bad way). The days my body has literally forced me to sleep at 8PM I've felt like literally a different person. I've seriously underrated clear thoughts, outlook and coherent consciousness.

Anybody else have this problem (pathetic addiction)? Any solutions you've learned to use (besides the obvious self discipline and self control?) How do traveling DJs do it?

man im a insomniac! i havent been able to get good sleep since I went to the sand box back in 2003. i work from 11 to 8 and dj a couple times per week. and I usually sleep from 3 to 4 am and im up by 8 am. best way to get sleep is log off of djtt turn off the computer and count sheep. if not a beer or shot of jd does the trick

Whats this thing people call sleep ? :P

Sleep is for the weak, and can be easily replaced by a diet of caffeine and basslines that make your teeth rattle.

BAHH!!!! you guys are no help!!! ;)


you know... maybe if I did have the pleasure, inspiration, stimulation and adrenaline of spinning for hyped crowds I may......I would forget about it temporarily. (working on it)

Seriously though...its becoming a health issue for me. I'm going to have to really buckle down.

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Originally Posted by Segfault

Sleep is for the weak, and can be easily replaced by a diet of caffeine and basslines that make your teeth rattle.

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this.

or smoke pot. thats how i get to sleep

Once you get over 30 you wont need sleep. i get 3-4 hours max and i'm all good *twitch twitch*

A few tips from someone who used to be physically unable to fall asleep before 1am...

First off, cut back on the caffeine. It will suck at first because you'll feel like you're exhausted in the mornings, but that feeling will help you fall asleep easier later. I used to do 2-3 energy drinks a day, but now I'm down to no more than 1 only a few times a week. My body was horribly physically dependent on caffeine so I'm still somewhat weening off, but cutting down helped me a bunch. It seems like stupid common sense, but it really does make a difference.

Secondly, quit smoking cigs. I was never a heavy smoker (1-2 packs a week at my worst), but quitting definitely helped me sleep easier, and I've heard the same from friends who have quit. If you get even small withdrawals, consider them somewhat of a blessing because they'll tire your body out more during the day having to deal with them, and that will help you nod off at night.

If you don't exercise or do at least some notable physical activity during the day, start doing so. A big part of my problem is growing up as an active child I always had lots of energy, and once I started working a desk job I never got to release and having all that energy still built up would keep me out. I moved to a job at a bike shop and started riding more after work and on my off days, and being able to actually break a sweat and burn off some energy and stress really helped me out.

In a nutshell, quieting your body and ridding it of external stimulation is the key. Through fixing my own sleep situation, I realized a lot of stuff I was doing was harming my body and I like to think I live a much healthier life now because of it (keyword think :p )

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Originally Posted by rvltion909

The thing is that the night time is the time Im most active mentally and creatively overall. Ideas start to flow (and so does the wine) once darkness falls.

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i'd say get a job with hours better suited to your lifestyle.

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Originally Posted by rvltion909

Anybody else have this problem (pathetic addiction)? Any solutions you've learned to use (besides the obvious self discipline and self control?) How do traveling DJs do it?

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you are straight up blind if you think addiction to creativity is a bad thing imo. change your surroundings to serve yourself and not the other way around

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Originally Posted by Kaon

you are straight up blind if you think addiction to creativity is a bad thing imo. change your surroundings to serve yourself and not the other way around

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agreed

hey wat up! hows the rest of your tour been?

Good! I'm back in LA now missing everyone, especially Spinsta =( Sussing out the next gig tho; looking like i'll be out there come November.

sweet! lookin forwards to that! my birthdays in november. i request a riot :p

well ever since i got into djing i am testing out stuff, coding my midi controller, reading this forum .. sleep is much reduced.

at any rate, the most important thing is to make the most of the sleep you do get. the key is to ensure that you never interrupt a REM phase. usually we need 2-3 REM phases per day .. dont remember exactly, but a REM phase including leadup time is around 1.5 to 2.5 hours, healthy adults usually need 6-7 hours of sleep per night. the good news is that with a little getting used to .. you can break up those REM phases across an entire day. some people claim its actually better to always just sleep one REM phase at a time.

i dont have one of those, but there are alarm clocks and software tools that monitor your movements while you sleep with a camera. based on this information and the time you want to wake up at the latest, they can determine if they need to ring the alarm early, so that you do not have to be woken up in the middle of a REM phase.

that would be awesome. Maybe I will try this, sleeping three times daily. I am always more productive at night, barring the amazing power of the internet there are fewer distractions.

any addiction is a bad thing, to creativity or otherwise.
i agree with comments said before. cut caffeine, stop smoking, creative a scheduled bedtime and stick to it. it will take several weeks to get into the routine and for your body to get used to it. but eventually you wont need to look at the time before your body will let you know when it is time to sleep. remember, your health, family and dayjob are more important then your creative process. you have to prioritize.

Sleep is overrated.

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Originally Posted by djalexlaine

any addiction is a bad thing, to creativity or otherwise.

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Not trying to Hi-Jack this one, but wanted to point out that addiction is not a bad thing. People with addictive personalities, Addicts , can never overcome addiction. Rather the way to cope with it is to replace unhealthy addictions with healthy ones, like going to the gym.

I had many sleep problems as well, but would like to point out that going to the gym was a huge help for me. It wears your body out and makes you feel great at the same time. Shouldnt have any problems after that, plus i usually feel very creative after the gym cause i got my endorphins kicking!

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Originally Posted by rvltion909

BAHH!!!! you guys are no help!!! ;)

Seriously though...its becoming a health issue for me. I'm going to have to really buckle down.

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+1 All of what Summervest said. Oddly enough, while I have been able to get to sleep easier because of this, it has also allowed me to stay up much later if needed without being under "certain influences".

Also, if you want to start making yourself go to bed early, turn off all sources of bright light in your house an hour before you want to go to bed. This includes TVs and computer monitors. Having light present tells your brain that it still needs to remain active. If you remove the light earlier in the night and reintroduce it earlier in the morning, you can change your "sleep timer" in your brain. There are many good programs about this on the Discovery and Science channel, but I don't remember what they were called.


OT - my personal quit smoking program was nicknamed "Packs for Tracks". It also included the pill and patches, but was mostly a mental game. Instead of spending 6 bucks fa day for a pack, I can now buy an extra .wav track on top of what I normally would, and still put nearly $100 a month away for new gear, just on the money saved from not smoking. Turning my real obsession into a means to get rid of a nasty and expensive habit.

yea, I dont smoke. I try to hit the gym for at least an hour 3 days a week. I do love me some caffein and ever since I started taking melatonin (3+yrs now) I dont have trouble falling or staying asleep.

Its a double edged sword. Either get some sleep, join the rest of the world and not spend enough time on my passions. Or... be a walking zombie in a state of mind that is unhealthy for me and others around me. (queue violin music)

If I were smart enough I'd find a way to literlly make it impossible (or VERY inconveinient) to have the net and certain electrical outlets active at certain times of the night

(yea, that will happen)

Meh, you can sleep when you're dead.

The Marines fucked up my sleeping patterns, combine that with an addictive personality and the fact that night time is the best time to work on music and mixes, yeah I dont get shit for sleep. I justify by saying, Im young, blah blah blah. Its terrible. I try to deny the problem for as long as I can, hence I hate this thread =p

last night I slept for three hours, and it was wonderful. When I was in 11th grade I started sleeping ~2-4 hours a night, every night. After the first few weeks you get used to it, although after several weeks I was riding my bike home one friday afternoon and fell asleep while riding (see nodded off momentarily). I crashed into the back of a car and broke my bike, chipped the top of every single tooth and was lucky that I didn't break my jaw (they thought I had initially). Unfortunately the car was a hatchback so instead of flying over the trunk, I flew into the rear glass (no helmet I was an idiot). Luckily there was a police officer about 10 feet away.

I am pretty sure that I am an insomniac, but not because I can't sleep, ie. chemically. But just because I choose not to so often, and most often when I do I am happy with that choice. Sometimes my efficiency and attention really start to drop off, also I noticed after a few weeks of not sleeping that your short term memory and attention span gets horrible. I even started hallucinating before once.

So yea hope you enjoyed my story and don't try to ride a bicycle while sleeping.

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Originally Posted by mpetersen3

last night I slept for three hours, and it was wonderful. When I was in 11th grade I started sleeping ~2-4 hours a night, every night. After the first few weeks you get used to it, although after several weeks I was riding my bike home one friday afternoon and fell asleep while riding (see nodded off momentarily). I crashed into the back of a car and broke my bike, chipped the top of every single tooth and was lucky that I didn't break my jaw (they thought I had initially). Unfortunately the car was a hatchback so instead of flying over the trunk, I flew into the rear glass (no helmet I was an idiot). Luckily there was a police officer about 10 feet away.

I am pretty sure that I am an insomniac, but not because I can't sleep, ie. chemically. But just because I choose not to so often, and most often when I do I am happy with that choice. Sometimes my efficiency and attention really start to drop off, also I noticed after a few weeks of not sleeping that your short term memory and attention span gets horrible. I even started hallucinating before once.

So yea hope you enjoyed my story and don't try to ride a bicycle while sleeping.

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Petersen...you are my anti-drug... :eek:

I will strive to NOT get there. Yea I am young...so now should be the time Im full of energy (sidenote: Ive NEVER been "full of energy").

Im going to try to get at LEAST 7 hrs a day. I have been sort of doing small things that have been mentioned here. Turning off all the lights and what not....although my room is always dark with only the monitor as a light.

I just hate being a zombie all the time. It actually sucks because the time I usually have on fridays is cut way back because I usually knock out for a couple hours due to being so tired...thus my practice scheduled gets pushed later and the next morning it is a vicious circle.

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Originally Posted by djalexlaine

any addiction is a bad thing, to creativity or otherwise.

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I feel the need to be creative for some people is an inborn urge like hunger or a sex drive. For myself the day job that does not give me a creative outlet is the addiction. I have always thought that if I was creative for those 40 hrs I could just come home and chill out and not need all the hobbies that I have. It has taken me a few years to figure out how to make enough money to support myself off the things I enjoy doing. A big part of that is reducing expenses that don't really contribute to my happiness. (No family to support. It would have been much harder if I did). A balance can be hard to find when making the transition.......

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Originally Posted by djalexlaine

any addiction is a bad thing, to creativity or otherwise.

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im intrigued, tell me more

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Originally Posted by DJ_Animus

The Marines fucked up my sleeping patterns...

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Tell me about it, when I was stationed in Okinawa, Japan, I used to work 24 hrs & was off 48hrs. If we had a Typhoon, I was on Typhoon watch and had to ride the sucker out for 3 to 6 days! No sleep until im six feet under!

http://www.okinawa.usmc.mil/Public%2...602-tyhoon.jpg

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Originally Posted by rvltion909

Anybody here have the HORRIBLE habit of not getting any sleep...consistently?

I've got a 8:30-5:30 day job (plus a half day Saturday shift) and I usually end up asleep at around 12AM-1:30AM...daily. I have to be out of bed by 7AM.

Its starting to take it's tole (physically and mentally). So much so, I've found myself searching the net for control mechanisms.....something that would literally cut me off at a certain hour. The thing is that the night time is the time Im most active mentally and creatively overall. Ideas start to flow (and so does the wine) once darkness falls. I actually feel like Im missing something if I did not stay up searching the net for various bits of information or creating sounds in my room on the DAW.

One of my goals for 09 was getting sleep like the rest of the world does and it's not working out too well. At this point it is a bit of an addiction (in a bad way). The days my body has literally forced me to sleep at 8PM I've felt like literally a different person. I've seriously underrated clear thoughts, outlook and coherent consciousness.

Anybody else have this problem (pathetic addiction)? Any solutions you've learned to use (besides the obvious self discipline and self control?) How do traveling DJs do it?

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There are often several components affecting peoples sleep.

Sleep hygiene - IE your daily sleep routine.
Anxiety over sleep.
Lifestyle.
Physical sleep disorders.

Most often it is one of the top 3.

In your case it sounds to me like this:

1. You have bad sleep hygeine. You are stimulating your body in the evenings continuously before bed. What the body needs is to progressively wind down and with very low stimulation in the last 1-2 hours before bed. So only reading, baths, pottering about in this time. Also - it is very useful to jot down tasks for the next day on a piece of paper. I know this stuff sounds simplistic - but it is really powerful and works! What it does is send your brain a signal to STOP being concerned with the various things on your mind - and prepare for sleep.
Cut out Alcohol if you want to get good quality sleep that night. Although Alcohol can feel like it helps get to sleep - it greatly reduces the quality of the sleep as shown by much research. You get much less deep sleep having drunk alcohol.
Do a search on 'Sleep Hygiene' for more details.

2. Increased exhaustion breeds increased worries and anxieties about sleep. What happens is your nervous system becomes progressively wired and less able to switch off and relax as you become increasingly tired. When we have tension in our nervous systems we are more prone to anxious thoughts - so as time goes on - with bad/not enough sleep - you start to become more worried about 'am I gonna sleep tonight'. It is a negative cycle that creates tension around the topic of sleep. Sleep should be a time of relaxed surrender - not something to be feared. I sense a certain amount of this in your post. To combat this I would suggest relaxations such as meditations, gentle yoga, baths etc.

3. Lifestyle!
Ok so this one is a bit bigger but here goes:
Are you happy with what you are doing in life? What I experienced in my own case and others is that what can happen is that we lead a 'double life'. We grind out a 9-5 and then get to what we REALLY want to do and are passionate about in the evening. Hence your post about getting into music in the evening and starting to have fun etc. I used to do this big time. I would 'switch on' in the evening and start to make music, smoke etc and I basically wanted to spin this fun time in the evening out - and only went to bed when I 'had' to.
The reality is that this 'switched on fun time' should be during the day! Our bodies are built for that - not to live our lives after work in the evening! Of course if we do that - we start to drive our bodies into exhaustion and have sleep issues.
If you have a satisfying and fun day - you feel no need to stay up all night chasing some enjoyment - you have already had it and can allow yourself to contentedly go to sleep in preparation for another fun day of fulfillment.
Many people are cynical and believe it is not possible - that life is hard and we have no choice. However what is often happening is that that is simply 'their belief'. They believe that they have no choice - and therefore that belief dictates their life - rather than trying/exploring what is possible...

As someone pointed out - what may need to be looked at long term is a line of work/lifestyle that allows you to live a lifestyle where you get this fun out of the day - rather than the evening. Im not saying you have to do music as a living. You could do what I do and work a job which isnt 9-5 and is more dynamic hence allows time during the day/week to make music.

Its not always easy to sort out initially - but people often dont realise that although the body can be pushed occasionally - long term it will lead to unhappiness (depression / anxiety) or physical health problems. Unfortunately in our western culture we are taught to drive ourselves towards success and less to nurture the body and soul!

I am training at a London Health clinic which specialises in stress related disorders, psychology and nutrition called The Optimum health Clinic. Hope that was helpful.

Get a girlfriend, or get lose the one you have, na jokes. They are usually good for keeping time and activities in check...or not. I do freelance graphic design and today I needed go into my work to get a job down for the day. Got stressed out of my mind, ended up spending most of the night in bed because it felt like I was getting punched in the stomach for 5 hours straight (not because of food either). Bad news. Anyway, there are some good tips above, some of which I might try and follow. Take a bath and have a chamomile tea before you go to bed, a recipe FTW. Turn out lights and let your eyes relax before sleep. Try eat healthy too, you won't eat as much and you won't feel like crashing afterwards. Exercise is a must.

Thanks piglet. Lot of good points in there. I've got a mortgage and Laurens, I've got a wife so no major "life style change" coming anytime soon I fear.

I'm lucky to have her deal with me coming back from work at 1PM on Sat, sleeping until 6PM, going to the gym from 7-9PM and waking up around 1130ish on Sunday.

A doctor once told me about sleep hygiene(also asked me if I was "straight" in the same sitting :confused: ). I will have to research it.

I didn't get to bed till 5AM this morning. Changed my traktor folders around and it totally screwed up my collections and playlists!

and now i sleep...

seriously, just get some melatonin pills. it will put you in sleep mode naturally.

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Originally Posted by djhipnotikk

seriously, just get some melatonin pills. it will put you in sleep mode naturally.

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hm thats a funny one. messing with hormones can be dangerous. awesomely, it gets produced naturally in the same place of your brain as DMT, the most powerful hallucinagenic known to man. so you're actually not dreaming, just tripping the fuck out

it's a small dose, and once you get on a regular cycle again your body should take over.

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Originally Posted by Kaon

hm thats a funny one. messing with hormones can be dangerous. awesomely, it gets produced naturally in the same place of your brain as DMT, the most powerful hallucinagenic known to man. so you're actually not dreaming, just tripping the fuck out

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I've taken 3mg nightly for 3yrs+ and dont notice any side efffects (twitch, cough...shudder...)

Everything I've read about studdies on it's effects seem only positive as well.

Unfortunately, I don't sleep enough (for my age). I usually get up around 7.30 and go to bed between 00.00 - 02.00, depends whether or not it's school or holiday.

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Originally Posted by rvltion909

I've taken 3mg nightly for 3yrs+ and dont notice any side efffects (twitch, cough...shudder...)

Everything I've read about studdies on it's effects seem only positive as well.

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i stand corrected.
but wait... no side affects? didnt you start this post? couldnt this suggest a dependance on the melatonin? when did you stop taking them?

It may sound crazy but download Mindwave for your iPod touch or iPhone. I haven't been using it alot lately but it plays binaural tones which trigger specific brain waves. I believe the type of brain waves being emitted during REM is Theta or Delta waves. I noticed when I started listening to it I would wake up earlier then normal. Which was huge for me cause I would sleep in for hours. Wikipedia binaural tones.

interesting - it would be a pretty simple process to create one of those tones inside a DAW