Importance of club music for the ladies

Why is it that a grimey street bully like 50 cents that, has sold millions of units, understands the importance of making music for the ladies at the club. But when it comes to dance music, much, not all, but recently a lot of the underground is just dirty beats? Nothing wrong with getting down but why the fear by the sweaty basement thieves to make a couple danceable joints for the honeys? Music is music right? Why this constant need for dirty beats?

What's with this obsession with the after hours sound at pool side or on a boat at 12 pm in the afternoon?

are you talking about G House? (I am addicted to it and have been playing the sh!t out of it for the last year or so.)

what do you mean exactly by "dirty"? like dj godfather or like electronic grit?

house music works for the ladies so does most anything that will make you dance..

No like dirty dark techno/tech house. Nothing wrong with it but I find that there is this obsession with it and it seems to be replacing the sunny fun environments. For me, there is a time and place for everything but I just find that I can't go to an club venue these days without it being straight up either TOP 40, EDM electro, or dirty underground techno. I was in NY and last weekend and its the same thing in Miami. All the vocal club danceable stuff is gone.

Listen, Im not hating on the music but this is not exactly the music I want to hear at a pool side event when Im trying to get down with some chickies. But every pool party I have been to so far this past month has been stuff like this. And its also the same stuff I am hearing at night during peak hours. Whatever happened to opening vs peak hour vs after hours sets?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-yiZogbiD4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEGXcYtNtQU

A lot of people want to listen to tech house in the sun. Heck, there are summer-long outdoors music festivals in both Montreal and Toronto (Piknic Electronic and Electric Island, respectively) that play mostly tech house. They're very popular and have a great vibe.

Well for starters using Hawtin and Nina as an example isn't the best idea, considering hawtin is known for Techno, and Kraviz for her love of techno/acid stuff. So yeah that's what there going to play?

Same for anyone that plays a similar sound playing in the day.

The move towards grittier harder edge of House/Techno, well NYC have been at the forefront of that for a while since LIES turned up on the scene, ran by ron morelli, as well as new starters like The Bunker, Mutual Dreaming, Proibito, Mister Saturday Night ETC, these are obviously underground labels to a point, LIES the being the biggest of them.

There's been a move back to using analogue gear, experimentation, and not everything sounding crispy clear.

I can only talk from my experience, which is vinyl, and the music I like/play, being house and techno.

There is obviously always a time and place, but if your known for something and get booked to play in the day, are you going to change your style? No.

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Originally Posted by colione98

understands the importance of making music for the ladies at the club.

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My god... I just showed this to my wife (who goes clubbing a lot)... she hasn't a clue what you mean.
We don't all go to clubs that are full of macho twats. Your field of experience seems to be very narrow.

She also said that the thread title was "patronising and sexist" - I'll tell you what she said, I didn't say this. It is a womans perspective so take it as that - "what makes him think women can't handle the music, what, do we need it watering down so us weak little women can handle it, is he 12 years old, has he ever met a woman" - her words dude, not mine.

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Originally Posted by colione98

a lot of the underground is just dirty beats?

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No it's not. You are going to the wrong clubs. Again I say your field of experience seems very narrow. The clubs I go to are 50/50 men/women. The music is not gender specific.

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Originally Posted by colione98

sweaty basement

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Most of the clubs we go to are sweaty basements. Women love it. I saw Carl Craig in a basement that was literally a basement, a huge system and nothing else not even any lights/smoke. It was a shit-hole. The "honeys" love it.

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Originally Posted by colione98

for the honeys

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My wife said "anyone using that term in a thread about the supposed inherent sexism in music is probably a sexist themselves but they just don't realise it". I mean c'mon dude, you can't call women "honeys" and then expect to be taken seriously when you are addressing what you consider to be sexism.

You need to go clubbing with me and my missus. Totty everywhere hahaha.

LOL @ this thread....LOL!

The only difference between men and women in clubs is that women actually remember to put on some deodorant.

I think I catch a little of the vibe, but as noted, you are using the wrong examples. Hawten IS minimal techno and NYC has always been a little darker and dirtier on the beats. And, living there my whole life and clubbing (although not actively in the past 10 years) can tell you the ladies usually are the ones leading the floor in those places ;).

The happier poppier stuff is still around in droves (how many Guetta or Avicci tracks get played to death?) and usually shows up at smaller venues or clubs that are not Pascha or hard core clubs. I have to play that stuff in the smaller venues I do (don't like to, but have to please the majority) because the crowds generally do not adapt to harder stuff all night long. One of the most annoying requests I get (outside of the Spice Girls or Brittany Spears) is "can you play something with words".

Although, I can tell you it is usually a group of woman that start going nuts when I turn up the harder stuff...so, it always tends to happen eventually :)

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Originally Posted by amadeus

The move towards grittier harder edge of House/Techno, well NYC have been at the forefront of that for a while since LIES turned up on the scene, ran by ron morelli, as well as new starters like The Bunker, Mutual Dreaming, Proibito, Mister Saturday Night ETC, these are obviously underground labels to a point, LIES the being the biggest of them.

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Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with that. L.I.E.S. are latecomers to the scene, and are more of a lo-fi techno/house/experimental label than anything that could be described as harder edged.

If you want to credit NYC, then credit Adam X and Frankie Bones for pushing that hard edged sound. Elsewhere you had Downwards and Sandwell District. And Surgeon. Biggest influence right now is Berghain sound, labels such as Ostgut Ton, Token, Stroboscopic Artefacts, etc. All of those are pushing a way harder edged sound and have been doing it for far longer. The majority of what L.I.E.S puts out sounds like unfinished demo tracks, or it's just shoegazing noise like Torn Hawk. The gems like the new Voiski or Steve Moore's releases are few and far inbetween, and those aren't really gritty at all; they're retro.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against L.I.E.S., but I really wish they would get some quality control (and that goes for all of the lo-fi labels pumping out endless amounts of releases right now.)

I've been into underground music for a long long time.

the ladies love the hard stuff..

If you want to hear "dirty" music check out some godfather....

Wait, wait, wait.


You use 50 cent as a shining example of a man who seems to understand women and crafts music for them.

I think you need to have a long hard think about what you've just posted my friend. Music is Music and as the saying goes 'It's Universal'

Maybe you should of entitled the thread ''Why play techno at pool parties?'' which is pretty irrelevant anyway if the kind of music you like is Richie hawtin and you like swimming.

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Originally Posted by colione98

Why is it that a grimey street bully like 50 cents that, has sold millions of units, understands the importance of making music for the ladies at the club. But when it comes to dance music, much, not all, but recently a lot of the underground is just dirty beats? Nothing wrong with getting down but why the fear by the sweaty basement thieves to make a couple danceable joints for the honeys? Music is music right? Why this constant need for dirty beats?

What's with this obsession with the after hours sound at pool side or on a boat at 12 pm in the afternoon?

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i havent gone through the replies just yet but i think ur are missing something that you may have not noticed.

Watch how the crowd goes in a club between boys and girls

when the beats are HARD and instrumental, its all about guys
but the minute you put a vocal on ANYTHING (not a vocal sample) i mean a full vocal track
the ladies flood the floor

there is something physiological here that even i have read studies on in the way a male/female brain
reacts to not only music but words as well

think about it. The adage is that WOMAN USE MORE WORDS THEN MEN in a day right?
why? because they pay attention to the words. They are emotional (the words are) and so are women.
But when it comes to physical communication, its all about men.
We look and read body language MUCH faster and accurately then woman do every time.
When men communicate to each other we mostly grunt of give gestures and half words.

woman want the whole dam library spoken out.....

see the correlation?

Its not that the music for WOMAN doesnt exist, its there but the NEWER stuff is more man friendly / appealing.

Most men want to hear the NEW beats anyway while a song for a woman can go back decades

one more thing i have to say is the problem most likely as well is the DJ who isnt playing the crowd properly

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Originally Posted by antifmradio

one more thing i have to say is the problem most likely as well is the DJ who isnt playing the crowd properly

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I think his original statement had to do with "any time is a good time for peak time" kind of crowds. It's the same way FM radio is programmed now. It's all based on "time spent listening". Who spends four hours in a club to see your favorite DJ that only comes in the area once or twice a year? (me...that's who). Crowds and DJs have taken the Vegas attitude towards things. "You'll only going to be here a short period of time so we need to make your experience by playing some banging tunes...no matter the hour of the day"...

Not many people like foreplay. I had a friend that years ago used to skip 15 minutes into a mix because "no one wants that intro shit".

I just want to go on the record that I LOVE foreplay. Aftplay is pretty good too but it's not for everybody.

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Originally Posted by SirReal

I just want to go on the record that I LOVE foreplay. Aftplay is pretty good too but it's not for everybody.

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what about dorsal?

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Originally Posted by antifm

i havent gone through the replies...

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Originally Posted by antifm

the minute you put a vocal on ANYTHING (not a vocal sample) i mean a full vocal track
the ladies flood the floor

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Like I said:

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I was kinda joking with the response (language, etc..) but it's true.

Girls LOVE to sing along!!!

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Originally Posted by Karlos Santos

My wife said "anyone using that term in a thread about the supposed inherent sexism in music is probably a sexist themselves but they just don't realise it". I mean c'mon dude, you can't call women "honeys" and then expect to be taken seriously when you are addressing what you consider to be sexism.

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amen!

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Originally Posted by Glitchwerks

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with that. L.I.E.S. are latecomers to the scene, and are more of a lo-fi techno/house/experimental label than anything that could be described as harder edged.

If you want to credit NYC, then credit Adam X and Frankie Bones for pushing that hard edged sound. Elsewhere you had Downwards and Sandwell District. And Surgeon. Biggest influence right now is Berghain sound, labels such as Ostgut Ton, Token, Stroboscopic Artefacts, etc. All of those are pushing a way harder edged sound and have been doing it for far longer. The majority of what L.I.E.S puts out sounds like unfinished demo tracks, or it's just shoegazing noise like Torn Hawk. The gems like the new Voiski or Steve Moore's releases are few and far inbetween, and those aren't really gritty at all; they're retro.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against L.I.E.S., but I really wish they would get some quality control (and that goes for all of the lo-fi labels pumping out endless amounts of releases right now.)

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Funny you should mention Adam X, he has a release coming out on LIES soon.

I know there are plenty of hard labels, thats a given, Berghain sound has been around for a long time, but I dont think you can compare the two, they are in two very different places.

When I was Talking about LIES etc I was talking about the move
"back to using analogue gear, experimentation, and not everything sounding crispy clear."
I don't like a lot of the output from LIES, to me it also sounds unfinished, and a bit for the sake of it.

Their sister label Russian Torrent Versions has had stronger output in my opinion.

But I do think that a lot of these labels have contributed a lot to the sound in the last few years, and certainly towards a "grittier" sound.

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Originally Posted by Karlos

I mean c'mon dude, you can't call women "honeys" and then expect to be taken seriously when you are addressing what you consider to be sexism.

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:confused:

I thought bitchez loved being called honeyz??? ;)

Remember, kids - sexism isn't cool...

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Originally Posted by keithace

what about dorsal?

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Dorsal sounds fishy.

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Originally Posted by amadeus

When I was Talking about LIES etc I was talking about the move
"back to using analogue gear, experimentation, and not everything sounding crispy clear."
I don't like a lot of the output from LIES, to me it also sounds unfinished, and a bit for the sake of it.

Their sister label Russian Torrent Versions has had stronger output in my opinion.

But I do think that a lot of these labels have contributed a lot to the sound in the last few years, and certainly towards a "grittier" sound.

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L.I.E.S. has definitely popularized the lo-fi sound as of late. I can certainly agree with you there as well as the opinion that a lot of it sounds unfinished.

I hate to comment on other people's likes of music...

But I just listened to L.I.E.S. soundcloud stream and can't help but wonder what happened to the "dance" in "dance music"...

(I am really not trying to be a troll or pick a fight)

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Originally Posted by keithace

I hate to comment on other people's likes of music...

But I just listened to L.I.E.S. soundcloud stream and can't help but wonder what happened to the "dance" in "dance music"...

(I am really not trying to be a troll or pick a fight)

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Not everyone's taste Keithace, that's cool, each to their own and all. But there are some killer one's on LIES, Greg Beato, early Florian Kupfer and Terreke are the ones to check.

A lot of LIES' output lies at the more experimental side, not really for the floor.

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Originally Posted by keithace

I hate to comment on other people's likes of music...

But I just listened to L.I.E.S. soundcloud stream and can't help but wonder what happened to the "dance" in "dance music"...

(I am really not trying to be a troll or pick a fight)

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Nah, that's not picking a fight, that's a highly accurate assessment of most of their output.

As amadeus says, there are a few gems on there, but it's mostly experimental.

I don't like the majority of what they put out. Just the (very) old school style techno/house/electro tracks.

maybe we are bringing light to the OP's original uneloquated post. Why are they playing boring ass experimental techno at pool parties? or maybe his point was "why is any time a good time for peak time?"

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Originally Posted by keithace

maybe we are bringing light to the OP's original uneloquated post. Why are they playing boring ass experimental techno at pool parties? or maybe his point was "why is any time a good time for peak time?"

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I still don't know why the OP used Hawtin and Kraviz as an example, like there both gonna break out some soulful house. Hawtin plays boring ass minimal techno bollox and Kraviz plays techno/acid, and thats what they are known for.

If you were at the video's the OP posted you would of known what to expect, not be like "why's Hawtin playing Techno?"

I've actually forgotten now what the original post was about...

I thought "the honeys" liked anything with a beat?

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Originally Posted by TonyRome

One of the most annoying requests I get (outside of the Spice Girls or Brittany Spears) is "can you play something with words".

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Right there is the disconnect. Period, no iffs, and or butts. We can't have a conversation because if you are the type to get annoyed by requests for music with words, then there is not much of a discussion we can have. It has nothing to do with undermining you but we are on totally different pages. Being annoyed by vocals most likely means that you are not a vocal dude. Nothing wrong with that and I could be wrong but let's be reasonable here, you are not into club house. I am not talking about poppy house, I mean serious vocal club house music like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orKR7LDPWGw

There is a disconnect and the only reason is due to the fact that we have different tastes in music. I listen and play a wide range of house music and so I know for a fact i am not in any way out of place- especially after speaking to some of the more well known in the game (i don't mean experimental music either).

Check out my conversation via facebook with 2 well known producers in vocal house:

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Me- hey brother! long time no talk. I have a serious question for you. Are you finding that the style of soul/funky/latin like your sound, purple music etc, is suffering between the electro EDM and techno/tech house sound?

Alfred Azzetto - "Hey Johnny ...it was long time ago no talk... unfotunately house music at moment is really down now and especially soulful house... agree 100% wit you. luckily my musical background helps me a lot in the music way so 'I can go easy in the heart of underground scene but without 'make shitty music as EDM"

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paul gardner (soul avengerz) 100% agree - i have a few regular gigs which are perfect / but at a lot of my guest slots around Europe it's either cheesy / EDM or Underground Techno - Feels very disheartening sometimes

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf5n4DjagwA

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Originally Posted by DubluW

Wait, wait, wait.


You use 50 cent as a shining example of a man who seems to understand women and crafts music for them.

I think you need to have a long hard think about what you've just posted my friend. Music is Music and as the saying goes 'It's Universal'

Maybe you should of entitled the thread ''Why play techno at pool parties?'' which is pretty irrelevant anyway if the kind of music you like is Richie hawtin and you like swimming.

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See, i know. You want to push me so that I can get all huffy and puffy and everyone will call me an arse and shy away from me. But no I won't. You have the internet correct? Ok, so don't move and pay close attention-
____________
Throughout his music career, Jackson has sold over 30 million albums worldwide and won several awards, including a Grammy Award, 13 Billboard Music Awards, six World Music Awards, three American Music Awards and four BET Awards. wiki-

there is your shining example and compare that to your favorite current dance or experimental artists.... No, sit back down- there is more.

Oh DubluW, where are you going, don't go just yet, Im just getting started with you :)

Now, providing that you do, which I don't think you will, but if you happen to find the time, start @24:45 until 27:30. That is 3 minutes of your time. Aww c'mon, I know you can do it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkOWi_vDAU

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Originally Posted by Karlos Santos

My god... I just showed this to my wife (who goes clubbing a lot)... she hasn't a clue what you mean.
We don't all go to clubs that are full of macho twats. Your field of experience seems to be very narrow.

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Ok, now for showtime!!!!! Mr Karlos Santos.... Btw, I really appreciate your passion! Totally awesome! Oh, and a little of info for ya, Im in America so there is a slight difference in layouts. But mind you, I much rather be in europe than the states for the music.

So! I again appreciate your effort and even sharing my post with your wife. Perfect. Trust me, many have tried to battle me but rarely do they ever succeed...

Here is what we will do- you will take the time to go over the material that I will present to you and hopefully you share this with your wife. But, you will come back to respond on the material that I presented as I will not comment any further. This means I will be simply the middle man and you will be debating 3 successful artists that share my same opinion! Deal? Good! You will be debating 3 of the better known artists in hip hop, techno, and vocal house- wow, got you all covered don't I?. So, shall we! I will make it easy and provide you the time. Btw, say hi to your wife for me Karlos!

ok, first up- you man of the hour, 50... @24:45- (as he speaks about making music for the women and for the club)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkOWi_vDAU

World Famous Ibiza Pacha vocal house recording artist/dj who happens to be gay himself - @4:15 speaking about playing for the ladies and not the men. (show that to your wife. Don't hide it from her, don't cheat karlos) And while you are at it, check out the ladies in the club (there are events that are not taken place in sweaty basements)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzEpLzxWt4g

And finally, check out your boy seth troxler @42:40 that hates on EDM saying at the Ibiza panel that techno/tech house is saturated and there are 50/60 parties in NYC of that style which is too much for any 1 scene... They even talk about how the underground bubble bursted in Ibiza last year and didn't work with so many underground events.. these are club owners saying this... So, again, my narrow view? Yeah, you feel really small now don't you karlos! I know, I am an ass but its all love and passion! Oh, yes, I know you tried karlos and you tried before but you can't. You are always welcome to try but you will never.... again, im like this cause its love, not hate. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ovewXy0UN8

You're posts are fucking hilarious, colione98! :lol:

You're killing me.

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World Famous Ibiza Pacha vocal house recording artist/dj who happens to be gay himself

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Just awesome. :thumbup:

I'm not even gonna bother responding to any of this, it's just getting stupid.

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Originally Posted by colione98

Right there is the disconnect. Period, no iffs, and or butts. We can't have a conversation because if you are the type to get annoyed by requests for music with words, then there is not much of a discussion we can have. It has nothing to do with undermining you but we are on totally different pages. Being annoyed by vocals most likely means that you are not a vocal dude. Nothing wrong with that and I could be wrong but let's be reasonable here, you are not into club house. I am not talking about poppy house, I mean serious vocal club house music like this:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orKR7LDPWGw

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Settle down killer. Part of it was a joke and the bigger part is I was asked to play a song with words in it at the time a Faithless track was playing...which HAS a great vocal (The Music Matters). The woman was in shock and disagreed that there was a vocal as it was blasting in her ear. Maybe she was tone deaf to vocals that are not destroyed by auto tune :)

I have no problem playing vocal tracks and would challenge about 75% of my set at one venue has vocals...because that is what works for that particular crowd.
Never said I was against it... Was just agreeing with the other posters that, in my experience, it has nothing to do with gender. ;)

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Originally Posted by colione98

See, i know. You want to push me so that I can get all huffy and puffy and everyone will call me an arse and shy away from me. But no I won't. You have the internet correct? Ok, so don't move and pay close attention-
____________
Throughout his music career, Jackson has sold over 30 million albums worldwide and won several awards, including a Grammy Award, 13 Billboard Music Awards, six World Music Awards, three American Music Awards and four BET Awards. wiki-

there is your shining example and compare that to your favorite current dance or experimental artists.... No, sit back down- there is more.

Oh DubluW, where are you going, don't go just yet, Im just getting started with you :)

Now, providing that you do, which I don't think you will, but if you happen to find the time, start @24:45 until 27:30. That is 3 minutes of your time. Aww c'mon, I know you can do it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkOWi_vDAU

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Riiiiiight still don't see where you're going with it. The guy is a douche who's penned lyrics such as ''i'll take you to the candy shop, i'll let you lick the lollipop'' laced over a pants hip-hop beat that crowds lap up as it's catchy, suggestive and easily digestible, like all mainstream music. Not because women hear it and go ''yeah, that 50 Cent Geezer know's how to make me tick, lets boogie''

If i need to explain why he's not really a stellar example of music full stop, nevermind making music for women there isn't much point continuing. The video with hawtin doesn't prove any point as its an event down as Richie hawtin doing a pool party. The big newsflash is don't go to a pool party where Richie hawtin is playing if you don't like techno.

Any Pool parties that i've been too in ibiza for the past couple of years have had both sexes dancing at them, be it at one playing Techno, EDM, House or whatever genre the DJ who's advertised plays because the people going to them like the music that's being played and are there for it. It would suggest you are going to the wrong places and are not paying much attention to the bill. No-one likes that guy at a party who shouts in your ear ''This is okay, but i don't like the music''

Top Tip-Read the Bill beforehand and you save yourself a lot of hassle :thumbup:

Anyway, i shouldn't need to push you in any direction to get huffy and puffy and make an arse out yourself, as you seem to be on the well trodden path of doing that yourself. Im out.