Learning to scratch on a controller

Hi all.

I'm a 35 yo guy who used to do a bit of mixing (dnb, techno, and trip-hop) when I was younger ( not commercially, just bedroom/party level). But then the parties stopped, along came marriage,kids,etc, and my turntables ended up gathering dust and were eventually sold. The itch has never left me though and I really want to get back into it.

I wasn't the greatest DJ in the world but I loved doing it and I could throw down a decent mix or two when I wanted. The one thing I never learnt to do though was scratch and its something that I really want to do. The thing is though that this time round I don't have the money or space for decks, so I was thinking of getting a controller ( nothing too expensive though) to have some fun on.

Ive seen some amazing scratching on controllers so obviously it can be done, but how hard would it be for the likes of someone like me to learn to scratch from the beginning on a controller?

Any input is much appreciated :-)

The SX is okay. The jog wheel tends to walk on both Serato and Traktor. Reloops have amazing response with such small platters. DO not get CDJ's to use as midi or HID for scratching. They leave so much to be desired, it hurts. :p The denon sc2000 is pretty chill. I didnt have any issues. It does have a problem with scribbles tho. Just not enough resolution I guess.

Yeah its definitely going to be a controller rather than CDJs.

I was looking at the Denon MC2000. Seems to be a decent enough device for the price.

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Originally Posted by hellnegative

The SX is okay. The jog wheel tends to walk on both Serato and Traktor. Reloops have amazing response with such small platters. DO not get CDJ's to use as midi or HID for scratching. They leave so much to be desired, it hurts. :p The denon sc2000 is pretty chill. I didnt have any issues. It does have a problem with scribbles tho. Just not enough resolution I guess.

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I disagree with most of this.

Also - I don't know any well known scratch DJ that has learned scratching on controllers, it's always the other way around.

Best gear for learning scratching is decks and a mixer of course.

Failing that you ideally want
- super tight jog wheel performance
- a decent cross fader
- jog wheels with a virtual sticker marker LED

The best portable controller for scratching:
- VCI380 with CF-X2 upgrade (SDJ)

The best non portable controller for scratching:
- NS7II (SDJ)

The DDJSX/SX2 (SDJ) runners up IMO, obviously better with the innofader mini PNP.

I don't rate the S2/S4 native Traktor controllers for scratching due to the jog wheel mechanism and the challenge if you want to upgrade cross fader (maybe this easier now tho... was still under the impression you have to take the whole face plate off).

Lastly another option if you don't mind doing the octopus arms stretch is to use the S4/S8/DDJSX/SX2...others as a mixer with real decks plugged into it, but then you could just as easily buy a real mixer to go with your real decks.

I enjoyed scratching on the Numark 4Trak, those jog wheels are nicely weighted.

Why not just get a set of ATLP120's and an AMX?

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Originally Posted by hellnegative

Why not just get a set of ATLP120's and an AMX?

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I'd love to get turntables, but they're simply too expensive (even those ones), and I really don't have the space for a permanent set up.

These are the 2 main reasons I'm going down the controller route this time.

On most controllers, a "scratch like" effect is possible...but without manipulating the jog wheels. Ean shows a "scratch like" technique with whit noise on a 900. This can be done with any loop of white noise. This is FAR easier than "actual" scratching, but has much the same musical possibilities when incorporated into a set. A micro loop of almost any sound can also be used to generate "scratch like" sounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlZfXxQTy6A

duplicate track onto other deck, put the gater on 1/4 or 1/8 and scratch it up.

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Originally Posted by 031999

I enjoyed scratching on the Numark 4Trak, those jog wheels are nicely weighted.

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+1 on what he said, I pretty much like my 4Trak in general.

Hey,
Im in exactly this position but i am 45, last time I used my decks was over 20 years ago and suddenly after watching loads of You Tube videos of people djing on controllers decided the time was right to start again (kids now gown up).

Anyway, i am one step ahead i have ordered a Reloop TM8, hopefully this should be good enough for me to get going, the reason i went for the TM8 was the fact the Jog wheels looked pretty good and it hit my budget.

I started out djing Hip hop in the early 80s and finished in 91-92 playing Hardcore/Techno, I used to play out a couple of times a week at that point, still with my wife who i met whilst DJing all those years ago, shes not so pleased about me starting this all over again!

Good luck.

I've tried scratching on my VCI300. The jogs just don't move right. With vinyl the turntable is still moving under the matt so it feels totally different.

I'm pondering what the various rotating jogwheel controllers feel like. I have a soft spot for weird hardware so I wouldn't mind getting my hands on the old Technics DZ1200 that tanked and got made irrelevant by the rise of the CDJ. Apparently they are pretty good with timecodes. There is also a Denon thing that I can't remember the model name of that is supposedly very good.

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Originally Posted by Stormcaller

I've tried scratching on my VCI300. The jogs just don't move right. With vinyl the turntable is still moving under the matt so it feels totally different.

I'm pondering what the various rotating jogwheel controllers feel like. I have a soft spot for weird hardware so I wouldn't mind getting my hands on the old Technics DZ1200 that tanked and got made irrelevant by the rise of the CDJ. Apparently they are pretty good with timecodes. There is also a Denon thing that I can't remember the model name of that is supposedly very good.

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dont bother with the sldz just yet...I may heard about a MKIII model, which could have midi support.

The denon thing your looking for is called the 3700 or the 3900, both really cool models. But no HID support for traktor, just midi

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Originally Posted by 031999

The denon thing your looking for is called the 3700 or the 3900, both really cool models. But no HID support for traktor, just midi

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midi on them is just for mapping buttons and knobs, scratching is done via timecode.

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Originally Posted by SlayForMoney

midi on them is just for mapping buttons and knobs, scratching is done via timecode.

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I guess you can use a traktor control cd with them, but I do know the 3700 puts out a integrated serato timecode

New version of the SL-DZ? Weird. That thing was discontinued forever ago.

I always liked the look of those things. And the hack a few people did to put a piece of wax in place of the crappy plastic platter was kinda cool. Unfortunately, they were expensive and junk when they came out.

i saw this, im not saying its fact or anything but it looks interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRAy...ature=youtu.be

Whats your budget?

DJ Tech Dif-1s $150 to $180

Used Direct Drive turntable $100-$200

Super Seal $14

so around $400 go with turntables. you wont have the experience or muscle memory to compensate on a controller for the latency. If you see someone rip it on a controller they are a beast on Wax.

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Originally Posted by 031999

I guess you can use a traktor control cd with them, but I do know the 3700 puts out a integrated serato timecode

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correct, 3700 outputs traktor mk1 signal and various others, 3900 outputs mk2 and others. so when you manipulate the rotating platter, you control the software via generated timecode signal (no need for control cd's). you don't control it with midi in that sence (except for VDJ which has native HID connection with denon players).

I've still to yet get around to learning scratching but the jogs on the Pioneer XDJ-Aero are beautifully responsive and smooth- you don't even need a laptop as it can run of usb or even an iphone (though it also plays well with tractor/vdj and I've managed to programme it to work with Mixvibes Cross which I love)

maybe worth a look at - excellent sound quality and you can pick them up pretty cheap 2nd hand

If you want to scratch on a controller it can be done.....but you are somewhat limited on what scratches you can pull off. There’s still TONS you can do though. I would STRONGLY and I mean STRONGLY recommend you get a Serato Controller and check out the SDJ forum at Serato. Tons of guys scratching over there.

Will it be the same as 1200’s no. Can you still pull off a few scratches yes and learn yes. From the controllers I’ve used
1. NS7 - rotating platters as real as it gets
2. VCI-300 - you can adjust the tension allowing for some tighter movements
Tied. NS6/DDS-SR - good sized and touch sensitive, but free floating so no real resistance

I’d buy a used controller to start with and go from there if you’re just messing around at home.

also let me add. If your going to learn....please learn, don’t use a gater trick or looped white noise or whatever clever trick someone uses to make a scratch “sound”. Honestly, that’s faking it. If you want to make a scratch sound......scratch. Here’s a vid I just grabbed randomly from youtube. Guy is tearing it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYRo55CSvrI

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Originally Posted by haze324

also let me add. If your going to learn....please learn, don’t use a gater trick or looped white noise or whatever clever trick someone uses to make a scratch “sound”. Honestly, that’s faking it.

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You beat me to it.
If you move the platter back and forth and the FX make it sound like you are scratching - you are not scratching. It's lame.

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Originally Posted by haze324

Here’s a vid I just grabbed randomly from youtube. Guy is tearing it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYRo55CSvrI

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i'm going to set the standard and say that guy is not tearing it up…. lol no patterns or power scratches at least he's having fun :) maybe go with a cdj 800 mk2 and a random mixer with an innofader

this is kinda tearing it up. a few of his cuts are sloppy but overall is dope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbpXbGxmbiE

Ha! Ok tearing it up relative to using a small VCI-300 (I agree it’s more of him doing his thing and having fun than “killin it") Wanted to show that it can be done on a controller and even if it’s not DMC level, you can still get at it.

BUT this dude above is using a Pioneer 909 battle mixer with an innofader!! Whole ‘nother level of set up. I sold my VCI for 150.00 bucks and it comes with Serato DJ.

Here check another video.....pretty neat routine on a VCI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnVBNlR-H0o

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Originally Posted by haze324

Ha! Ok tearing it up relative to using a small VCI-300 (I agree it’s more of him doing his thing and having fun than “killin it") Wanted to show that it can be done on a controller and even if it’s not DMC level, you can still get at it.

BUT this dude above is using a Pioneer 909 battle mixer with an innofader!! Whole ‘nother level of set up. I sold my VCI for 150.00 bucks and it comes with Serato DJ.

Here check another video.....pretty neat routine on a VCI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnVBNlR-H0o

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Yeap Dj Deception is a beast i've heard and checked him out a few times :) If you go back a few post i said start with vinyl so when you switch to a controller you will have the muscle memory and that anyone that is dope on a controller is a beast i stand by that statement.

here is the same DJ as above DJ Deception on Vinyl :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TWdl3zG9Qk

i would never purposely give out information publicly without knowing what i'm talking about. :cool:

I should add you can drop an innofader into a VCI300 (both versions, easier on the mk2) if that is your thing.

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Originally Posted by haze324

also let me add. If your going to learn....please learn, don’t use a gater trick or looped white noise or whatever clever trick someone uses to make a scratch “sound”. Honestly, that’s faking it.

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"Faking it" covers a wide range of possible "offenses"...the line between "using technology wisely" and "cheating" remains the subject of a great deal of debate. In macro terms, the "electrification" of the guitar was only "recently" settled as being an "actual" musical instrument. Contrast that with the piano that has been around in the "modern" form for about 300 years.

There are ongoing debates about the "authenticity" of scratching with vinyl that has "scratch samples" rather than finding the right section of a full track. Whenever it is "decided," kindly let me know which side of that debate "won" and I'll make a note for future reference.

If you want to learn to scratch with vinyl...by all means do that. The turntable is hardly an "obvious" device to use as a musical instrument. The "accidental" use of the turntable as a musical instrument carries with it a great many "accidental" constraints. But trying to "scratch" with anything other than turntables and vinyl will require some "compromises." Even using control vinyl is not "the same" total experience.

If you want to learn to make "scratch sounds"...then do that. The crossfader work required is still "the same" (or very similar) and allows some limited exploration of the total skillset required to scratch with vinyl.

Controllerism is evolving (almost) daily at this point. There are advances with new software and hardware being released every couple of months. In practical terms, it is still possible for a new technique for controllerism to be invented at every gig!

Determine the sound you desire to make, and then take advantage of everything in front of you to achieve that goal. Do not let ANYONE (including me) put constraints on YOUR art form.

I’m not sure why you tried to get “deep” with your response if your simply trying to say it’s ok to make scratch sounds even if your not really scratching due to evolving technology.

Yes faking it was supposed to come off as offensive and discourage him from, well....faking it.

vestax VCI 100 ( i think thats the model ** one with the glass platters ) is what a buddy of mine used to scratch on & he said that was his personal fav.

&& he was very good at it.