Amazing, this setup is what I have been working towards for years :drool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twiD1nTcIqE
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Amazing, this setup is what I have been working towards for years :drool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twiD1nTcIqE
Ok it's about Richie twisting Knobs. He can do that quite well, but where actually is the value of the performance? To me it looks more like a demonstration of potential ideas. I think that the progress brought a lot of flexibility regarding the performance. DJs can add all kinds of percussions, fx, melodies etc.. But there is one thing to remember: There is a reason why a normal tune is not created on the fly. All kinds of sophisticated automations, transitions, etc. take more than one attempt to sound the way the producer wants it to. When you take out too much of studio production work, I believe your live performance then does not live up to any higher value to the audience. To me this looks more like a demonstration of what is possible and showcasing skills. This is not what would get me going on the dancefloor. It appears Richie is puzzling about the perfect sound he can create on the fly. But it's simply the interest in his devices and having a look at him operating them what makes it special. I am quite certain that Richie could play a set with two CDJs and people would enjoy his mix just as much as his other performances.
What sort of music do you normally spin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserbeam
Techno and Trance, why do you ask?
Because it seems like you don't really get how his style fits with the brand of techno he usually plays. Have you seen any of his live sets recently? Or maybe Nicole Moudaber? Matador? Chris Liebing? Rebekah? A lot of techno is made for tearing up and rejigging. I tend to have at least three decks of loops going at once, with a fourth queued up waiting to play. That's when I can't be bothered to hook up my Push. Adding synth melodies and basslines on top would be a no-brainer when you're seasoned like Hawtin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserbeam
Neither do I doubt his skills nor am I not impressed by his sets. What I simply want to say is that the digital mixing Richie pushed within his days, starting with timecode, then switching to fully digital (finally we got to a point where the sync-discussion has come to an end, yet you still find haters) with the 4D and lately he took the next step introducing the model1 must not offer greater value, even though we all benefit from his influence.
My point is: Put Richie into the setting of a music fair with interested and proficient guests. They will love what he is doing. Put a DJ with a standard Nexus setup in the same setting. Not that fancy.
Now put Richie into a club setting. Barely anybody is able to see what he is doing and people prefer to dance anyway. And the people could enjoy the standard DJ set just as much as they did hearing Richie (or any other live performers).
You get my point? Electronic music has a different philosophy than rock or jazz in that regard. Who would want to watch a playback rock or jazzband? Not that I am saying a DJ set is playback, it's just a comparison.
I really don't get your point.
I've seen Hawtin live a few times, and...it's interesting. There are times when the whole thing falls apart and is just plain boring. There are other times it's awesome. Just like pretty much everyone else...every DJ has had a track fall flat.
He does his thing and does it well. For me...I don't like doing that kind of thing. And I have done it "his way" before (with Live and/or Maschine, not all the stuff he uses now). I just don't enjoy it, which is why I don't do it. He does enjoy it, which is why he does.
It's like you're trying to say that DJs are service providers. Certainly, some are (think about weddings and school dances). A lot of them (like Hawtin) are not. They do a thing, and if they're lucky, talented, and hardworking and can sell themselves well, people pay to experience it.
There definitely are people who couldn't care less who's performing or even what the music is. But if that's the norm in your world, it means your clubs suck.
Yeah, Hawtin has top billing. His sets are as much a performance as Tiesto's or whoever. It's just that his stuff is pretty much completely on the fly. Saying that, I'd rather a DJ try to add some flair to their set rather than just two CDJs.
I honestly have mixed feelings. Hawtin is on my list of the best DJs I've seen (in terms of technicality, enjoyment, whatever). Along with a couple other guys who went more or less into adding flair. Sasha's on the list regardless of what he was using (Seen him with Live/Maven, Traktor, and CDJs). Jazzy Jeff is on the list doing the turntablism thing, which I think counts as flair the way you mean it. There are a handful that I've only seen on youtube or be-at.tv that I'd put on the list that go crazy with all the toys and doing all the things.Quote:
Originally Posted by happydan
But Derrick May and Richard West are also on that list. And both of them were doing simple 2-deck mixing. They had 4 decks available, but that was just so they could use vinyl or CDs. The mixing was simple. And those nights were incredible.
I saw the close performance at awakenings and it is awsome, completly diffrent from the dj behind the decks, Richie is really working to give his audience a real performance in sound, light and overall experience...if you have the chance go see him..!!
And believe me i see a lot of techno ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserbeam
It really is diffrent, i was sceptical to, but saw him at awakenings festival, big tent with 5000 peeps inside and it really made a diffrence...and dont forget, he is really making an effort for this , like you said he could also turn op with just his usb stick but dicided he wanted to give more....
And yes like any dj he sometimes has a bad day, but don't we all
Can you describe what made the difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by ragverp
Anyway, I do think he is a luminary of Techno(logy), but perhaps in some sense he took things too far. He made Techno glamorous, turned it into a pop culture, lives a jetset lifestyle himself. I suppose his artist fees start at 10.000 bucks and reach far beyond. He worked hard and deserves the credit for it, but it's definitely has all got a dark side as well.
Adam Beyer is just bringing his usb and his fee's are up there with the rest of them, Carl cox is playing a traktor d2 setup with 2 cdj's and he earns more then most of them combined, Amaly lens just the usb etc etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserbeam
Richie is not my favourite, actualy none of the above, but he is doing en did more work for techno then all of them, the fact he is not behind a stage gives another feel. I felt more connected to him, i loved that he has 2 or 3 camera's on the equipment showing what he is doing on the big screen behind him.
And as a fellow producer and dj i could really see the level of the performance he took it to...
Granted that 99.8 % in the room is to far out to even notice anything like that, but that is no reason to stop making a effort
Techno for me is always about taking things further and experimenting with the techno(logy) available to us ..
i love how every post here has a valid point in it. great discussion guys ;)
Interesting about the cameras. He recognises part of the Richie Hawtin experience is seeing what he is doing.
If you just listen, is what is coming out the speakers sounding better than playing finished mixed tracks? I guess the answer is sometimes yes, sometimes not; but of course it's original and that's the niche he's carved and has made him successful.
I would say it's easy for a DJ to fall down the self-indulgent rabbit hole, but of course people vote with their feet, literally.
So...the funny thing about Carl Cox, according to one of his "How I Play" videos, is that he has the CDJs controlling Traktor and does it just because he believes people expect to see the physicality he brings to a DJ set that's missing when he only plays on more modern controllers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragverp
There was apparently a time when hew as just using a Maschine to control Traktor.
If you just wanted perfectly mixed music, a computer could do that. There are a lot of people, even in the club scene, who believe a DJ could be replaced by an iPod on shuffle. They're obviously wrong, but there are people who wouldn't notice even that.
The idea of criticizing a DJ for doing "too much" or saying that something they're doing not being worth it...I think is BS. If it wasn't worth it, they wouldn't get booked.
Criticizing success...there's no point. All of these people play music they like to punters who like their taste and style, and they're successful enough to keep doing it. Beyond that...nothing really matters unless you're comparing yourself to them....which, mostly, isn't what they do. I'd bet good money Hawtin doesn't compare himself to Cox and feel bad because his booking fees are (probably) lower. He compares himself to himself yesterday or a year ago or a decade ago, and that's why he does what he does.
This is what we all should be doing as artists. Art and music are not a competition. They are a collaborative effort in self expression.Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
1. It's funny cause nobody can barelely see Carl mixing because the stages he plays are just too big.Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
2. There are DJs doing too much, Hawtin is not one of them. There have allways been the guys who tend to believe they need to add effects to anything, but destroy the mix by doing so. Some DJs even mix like shit, but they are still worth it in some way, for the promoter, because these guys fill the floor. It's still a big mystery to me how Mr. Guetta for example is not capable of handlling two CDJs
https://youtu.be/kMRe5A215xs?t=719
3. I don't think anybody critisizes the success. In Richie's Case it is well deserved and I believe if he had not gone trying to push himself and reach the next level, there would not be a Model1.
Amen.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bastet
Seriously, listen to any of the top guys in almost any field talk...that's what they do and how they think.
1. Agreed. There's still a sense of him moving around, though. I think it's more about him jumping and bouncing and moving back and forth across a setup that's almost 6 feet wide that he's referring to...not so much what he's doing to the hardware.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserbeam
2. Agreed. Whether I'm playing minimal techno or house or full on "why am I doing this" EDM, I like doing as little as possible and getting out of the way of the music. Hawtin has a very different way of playing that I respect but don't care to do. And he's very very good at it.
3. There was someone ITT that seemed to make fun of him for his lifestyle. I can't be fussed to scroll up and figure out who. Maybe I misinterpreted it.
Pleasurekraft uses a Maschine Mk2 and a DJM-900NXS2 with Traktor.Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
I don't know if it has anything to to with it but Hawtin, KiNK and Zabiela are one of my favourite artists and have caused my greatest nights out yet. I really like how Zabiela is just messing around on those decks having fun, checking out what sounds good. KiNK is just straight out building new stuff live and Hawtin feels like an artist creating a new piece of elegant art on the fly. I might be that the amount of creativity and creation involved is what makes these performances so amazing.
I feel very differently, especially about Zabiela. I met him very briefly (we were both in the audience at a Sasha performance in Miami years ago). He's an awesome guy and a technical wizard. But, I'm not a fan of his performances. It seems like "wankery" the same way that a lot of jazz solos do.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDoubleYou
But, stuff like that is just preference. He's very good at it. I just don't like it from an aesthetic/enjoyment standpoint. Like Hawtin's, I've practiced some of those techniques to help understand what he's doing. And I respect it. But, it's not what I want to listen to when I'm at a club.
I've done stage tech for some of Carl's techno gigs here in Melbourne (Pure 2016 & 2017) as well as production manage audio for his Mobile Disco's with Eric Powell, so I've seen Carl use everything from controllers, Live, Rekordbox, Traktor, CDJ's (USB and CD) and vinyl! No matter what style or medium he uses, he puts everything into his "show" and every time the dance floor reacts to a track he's thinking "how can I make this even better".Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
I have no doubt he gives it his all every time. But, he did say in one of those how i play videos that some part of the reason for CDJs (as traktor controllers, IIRC) was the physicality of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankle
Yeah but comparing Carl Cox to Richie Hawtin is like comparing Sebastian Vettel to Sebastian Loeb.
One is a minimal techno performer, the other isn't. What Richie is doing is more interesting as a dj TO HIM than just playing decks and doing tricks. It's more like live production in front of a crowd. Liebing does it this way, Speedy J does it this way as well. The gear that they use, wouldn't even make sense for Carl and I don't think it would make sense for his sets, even if someone paid him to use a setup like that.