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what defines one?
im tierd of saying: hi, im a dj
and having a confused look when they see my controller
i would much prefer the conversation to go like...:
-hi, im a controllerist
-whats that?
-it means i use a controller to mix music etc.
but thats the problem, all i do is mix, i dont juggle much, and im not using a midifighter as a deck or anything like that.
so would it be right to call myself a controllerist?
I'd say no.
-
I'd have to say controllerist = turntablist.
I remember in one of ean's earlier vids he said that a controllerist was someone who did routines similar to that of a turntablist but using controllers. I now personally think the term controllerist would categorise a larger group now as more people are starting to turn to digital setups using controllers to perform in clubs etc. rather than just shorter routines.
I'd call you a controllerist
I'm a deejay. My focus is on playing tunes for people. I use both records and controllers. Quite often when I play out I'll just use a controller.
If my focus was on routines on my controller I'd call myself a controllerist. If it was on scratching I'd call myself a turntablist. I'm neither, I'm a DJ, like you.
There are 2 dangers to calling yourself a controllerist:
1) You're bringing unecessary attention to the fact that you're just using a different tool to create the same result in mixing 2 tunes together
2) You are going to piss off actual turntablist/controllerists
Don't be ashamed of what you are!
You are a DJ.
Dont give the "controllerism isnt DJing" idiots anymore ammunition.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
...
The history is like this:
Babu: "I'm turntablist (like guitaris)" (and not only a Disc Jockey)
Moldover: "I'm a controllerist" (like turntablist but without tunrntables).
40 years ago...
Bruce Lee: "I don't believe in styles anymore because styles (and labels) separe the humans" (...) "My style is the no-style". "Students become robots pursuing the "Master" cristalized knowledge making his "word" the Godspell Truth.
Back to the future...
Mudo: I'm a Free Creative Human... but if you don't understand it, call me "Tooltablist" (because any "tool" is the "tool") but don't forget: It is only a name... (not the Godspell truth).
Ean Golden is declared himself a controllerist because he dropped the turntables in the past... maybe with dicers he is considering change that. At last, who cares?
The most important question is:
Are you alive, my friend? What do you Feel about this?
;)
...
I absolutely love you Mudo...
Mind-Bending.:D
I feel like... I've learnt something. I feel like... I've learnt nothing. But I do... feel alive.
Why not just be a musician? Or is it the tool that defines the artist?
It's not the tool mate.
It's just like saying you're a forensic scientist when in fact you're a general doctor. And then you meet an actual forensic scientist who tears you a new forensic asshole.
I don't think of myself as a musician when I DJ. I just play songs musicians have made, for people's enjoyment.
I'd probably describe a controllerist/turntablist as a musician. Although I'm not a big fan of that kind of music.
There's some good points about this in this one below:
http://www.djtechtools.com/forum/sho...upboard&page=5
Though I've never done anything professionally, from the standpoint of any artist it appears your job is to attempt and illicit a response (emotional, physical, whatever) when producing your art.
If you just play recorded songs for a person, then you're just a jukebox. But you're not, you're human, and you reach deep into your record bag for the right song, the right pitch, the right tempo, the right beat, and you craft together a string of songs to make people sweat it out on the dancefloor.
That, my friend, is an artist, regardless of tool.
I'm a Button Jockey :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by completej
For what is the artist without his tools? but it is also the artists use of the tools which further strengthen his position.
Some deep psychological shit going on.
EDIT: I'm high. sorry
tbh i throw the word controllerist around when describing what i do, use it more as guideline to show that it's a bit more than regular djing. still refer to myself as a dj
not sure if layering loops across 3 or 4 decks at a time with effects counts as this properly though, as it could be done with cdjs or even tts. but then it's not a dj set it's a 'dex n fx' set. again a term used to elevate just a bit above the conception of mixing track a to track b.
if you feel you do more than a > b > a > b, then use a 'buzz' word when describing what you do, but don't define yourself with it.
no. that'd be like saying just because a dj uses turntables that makes him a turntablist, when it really does not.
unless you're doing complex tricks and routines with your controllers, you're just a regular dj. crafty use of fx and 3-4 deck mixing does not constitute as a controllerism routine either. that's just mixing other people's music, albeit slightly more advanced than simple traditional a-b mixing.
Here are the wikipedia entries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turntablism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controllerism
...I wouldn't be surprised if the controllerism one was written by one of the members here...
...
Controllerism is "conceptualized" by Moldover to "separate" himself from turntablism because he uses some "techniques" but not turntables.
Nowadays with DVS I could send Midi and OSC with my regular turntable and I am...
turntablist approarching to controllerism?
perhaps but I have integrated my arduinome (osc controller) and my vestax vci 100 to some "tricks" and then I am...
controllerist approarching to turntablism?
No. I'm still a Free Human Creative outside all these "mind jails".
I use tooltablism to integrate any "tool" (turntable as a tool not only as a instrument) in my attempt to fill the gap and build a bridge between all this "organized desesperation".
I can't imagine Michelangelo asking himself... Am I a sculptor or painter? What is best for expressing myself?
More about Sifu Lee philosophy and Artform:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy3EJ5QTrx4
enjoy...
...
well, no, it isn't. if someone called themselves a turntablist then just a/b mixed with no scratching or other tricks they'd be called out straight away.Quote:
no. that'd be like saying just because a dj uses turntables that makes him a turntablist, when it really does not.
also with my example i used the qualifier 'not sure if' ;) but i do have a few cue/loop juggle routines which i pull out, question then becomes what amount of the time has to be taken up by these to qualify, obviously 1 doesn't, but you can't do it all night either.
also is controllerism defined purely by cue juggle routines? or does it encompass the live remix/mash-up side to(re; wiki link)? as the majority of stuff i tend to do leans that way.
the wiki link is a touch broad in it's definition, i think the key thing to remember is; like turntablism, there are people with varying levels of skill/creativity and some push boundaries more than others, while i wouldn't consider myself to be anywhere near the level of ean or moldover. i do consider what i do personally to be a bit further on from the traditional sense of things with turntables/cdjs - a comparison i base on my former experience with tts and cdjs over the last 10 or so years.
at the end of the day, imo, if you're rocking a controller and doing more than a/b/a/b/a/b/a/b/a/b/... it counts. yes some of it can be done with tt/cdj set-ups (again i speak from experience) but you can push things on that bit more.
at my tt peak i could drop 20-25 tracks in an hour and beatmatch on fly, and that track/min average is still something i maintain now, but i can give things more of a 'twist' than i used to. but i didn't consider that turntablism, and if it it's just a/b/a... in traktor it's not controllerism either - just very quick djing
i think my closest 'non-contoller' comparison would be my old 2x cdj and 2x efx500 setup, with some complex splitter arrangement on the audio cables so channels a & d were the cdjs, and b & c were the efx units - did a lot 'echo feedback' to sample/re-sample and mess things about.
while it had the same kind of effect as what i now do, i wouldn't have tried to call it controllerism, as controllers weren't involved. instead i leant more towards the 'dex n fx' pigeon hole (first saw the drumattic twins use this label), which i can't use now, even though the workflow is similar, as no decks are involved and it would be the first thing people would flag.
wouldn't have considered turntablism as i can't scratch, though i use the zabiela transform effect trick, but if we're honest that can't be considered true scratching. (i know i argued opposite in another thread but that was for poopz and lolz)
maybe some of it is me being up my own arse a bit about what i do (if so i hold my hands up to that), but i honestly think if you are doing something that make you stand out then shout about it and slap a fancy word on it. if you get handed 2 mixes that are both called labeled as a 'dj mix' you'll most likely pick which one you listen to first based on track list. but if one was described it in a way that makes it sound more interesting, you're more likely to listen to that first - just make sure you're confident in being able to back up your claims.
to sum up my thoughts on all aspects of dj/mixing styles;
dj - a/b mixes, maybe some effects between transitions, uses tt, cdj or software
turntablist - scratches, does mental routines using double ups and other tricks, works mainly on tt, possibly with dvs can be done on cdj. can use controllers
dex n fx - done with more than 2 tts or cdjs (any combination) uses samplers or sampler style effects, remixes and mashes up live. could also encompass dvs/controller hybrid set-ups, but has a different workflow/sound to turntablism.
controllerism - combination of turntablism, dex n fx and cue juggles in any ratio/combination done on controllers, if tt/cdj timecode is involved then it's either turntablism or dex n fx dependent on workflow
maybe some of that is too black and white, but as a guideline i think it works to illustrate my opinion.
despite my long ass essay i do agree with this though. again it's personal preference at the end of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudo
wait what. i'm confused, did you think i was addressing your post - i was addressing the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradCee
turntables =/= turntablist
controllers =/= controllerist
was my point, then you echoed my sentiment...
we should make a DJTT dictionary. i agree with these as a rough definitionQuote:
Originally Posted by BradCee
i wanted to expand the on the sentence i quoted as it got me thinking further, that's why i popped your name out of the quote code.Quote:
Originally Posted by duerr
thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by jdog667jkt
How Many DJs Does It Take To Change A Light Bulb...???
Who knows, no-one seems to know what a fuckin DJ is these days.
personally, i think the term "controllerist" is kind of pretentious. is "dj" really not enough anymore?
oh i see.... you bastard. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by BradCee
DJ is plenty.Quote:
Originally Posted by duerr
More than plenty...
Whats wrong with being a DJ and saying "Im a DJ".
Sure you can explain further how you DJ and what you use to DJ but yadda yadda yadda... your a DJ, especially if your standing in front of people making them dance playing other peoples tunes.
This is a never ending discussion.
I very much doubt a girl/boy has ever said "I f*cked that controllerist last nite":D
from post before my long rantQuote:
Originally Posted by Karlos Santos
:pQuote:
Originally Posted by BradCee
I'm with Karlos on this one. Can't we all just get along.
thanks for the responses guys :D
ill just stick to dj then
I never really gave it any thought... i usually just either say i'm a DJ, a Digital DJ, or a DJ working a 100% digital setup (that last one i found out gets the most positive responses, like you're ahead of the pack or something)
i never thought of that last one
i think that would solve my problem :D
I thought about this a little while back when a club owner was like are you a DJ or are you one of those new laptop button pushers (I didn't get the gig.) I think the whole title thing is half dumb, because we all do the same thing... play music. But people don't want to hear that so yeah, I just go with dj
What I dont get is why it even matters... The Beatles were rock stars, in a group mabey.. but at end of the night they were rock stars generically categorized. If people choose to care what tools you use than wow your dream has just come true and your controller will be happy.. but I think people are going to remember if the sound coming out of the speakers were speaking to them in the groove or not at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrogstar
I never understood why it matters either... but apparently in the industry it does, so i guess we just have to deal with it.
I can't wait until the day i walk into a huge dance club and see a dude rocking the dancefloor with nothing but a macbook and a vci-300 or something small like that
someone should send tiesto an S4 system when it comes out. that might help things along a bit.... ;)