Well that's just disheartening

Hey guys, just read an article on the djtt blog here and I'm not going to go on a rant or anything but in the article it said you basically have to give up any full time career you're pursuing or have and use all that time to dj and produce music. I'm just seeing what you guys think because I'm 20 years old right now and have been producing music for about 2 to 3 years and have listened to EDM since I discovered Ferry Corsten on Itunes when I was 12 years old and now and I'm finally getting to a point where I'm proud of what I'm making and am starting to get noticed. I've always had aspirations of being a professional dj/producer but I'm not going to give up my career path that I'm guaranteed to make a living on to chase something that you have a very slim chance of making it at unless you give up everything else in your life for it. I just wanted to know if anyone out there is or was in the same situation as me and has made it without throwing their life away for it. I would still like to pursue my dreams but I'd also like to have a plan b. thoughts, comments, questions are all welcome

Well, Girl Talk finished college with a degree in biochemistry and he didn't end up enjoying what he was doing...and now he's Girl Talk. Stop worrying and do your thing. "Overnight success takes about 15 years." :)

I read the article and have discussed this same situation with friends over the years...

Personally I feel it's true.

You have to put your all in when it comes to the music thing. This usually means not looking at it like a hobby and jumping in with both feet.

I'm not quite at your position, but I made the decision to keep DJ'ing / making mashups as a hobby, and not quit my day job to put 100% into my passion... I'm happy I can pay the bills, and do an occasional gig a few times a year, but I have to keep my aspirations in check. I realize I'll never make a career as DJ, mostly because I don't have the time to put 100% into the craft, and I have to be content with that.


It's tough, as I watch my friends rise up in the local scene. But most have part time jobs, and have come to rely on their musical talents to bring in what money they can... this forces them to put 100% focus on their passion, and really hone their skills. But I also hear about money woes and a no feeling of security, and personally that would drive me nuts. On the other hand, I find these people to be truly happy because they are doing something they love.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siu6JYqOZ0g

Ya I understand both of your guys points of views idk I'd like to think I'd be able to hold my career and do the music thing on the side and be successful but I just don't know if I can get where I want to be by just producing tracks whenever I can.

I asked a similar question here: http://forum.djtechtools.com/showthread.php?t=37687

lot of mixed thoughts not an easy decision to make.

It's too risky for most people to jump into the deep end and dj/producer success takes years. Every successful local dj I know that's makes a sole living from music ALWAYS had a full time job going into it. Then they dropped to part time when things picked up, and finally quit the day job. For the people I personally know who did this, it took them about 5 years to get to that point. A couple of them had jobs In the industry already (ie a barback at a club) while one worked at a cable company.

Don't quit your day job, you can still have success but it will take longer, though you won't get kicked out of your house or not be able to eat when the gigs dont come rolling in. The truth is a very small percentage of people become very successful at this.

thanks for the input!

I think the only thing I really want is to do everything I can do to be successful without giving up my full time job, and if it doesn't work out with the music I want to know that if I give up on my dream I gave everything I could to be successful and have no regrets that way

Yea man I know what yer saying, Im around your age (22) in college doing architecture and its literally sucking the life out of my practicing and music production :(

It really bums me because I worked all summer to pay for a lot of new gear (light fx, speakers, amps etc) and had plans of throwing unofficial partyies for this summer coming.

All of this with a great amount of practice put in, but now ive lost it as I havent the time for it with my course.

It also stopped me from attending the DJ Soc in my college, which I was really looking forward.

Pretty crap, so I feel yer pain :P

Yea that's horrible! :/

At 20 years old ... If you're going to do it ... DO IT! RIGHT NOW! I'm 29 ... at 22 I had placements w/ Tech N9ne ... and some other very notable independent artists. In your personal life ... avoid or be very cautious with credit cards ... relationships ... making babies. Also take care of yourself (health wise) These are things that will hinder your creative growth ... IF YOU ALLOW THEM TO. And all those things are GREAT things ... BUT the truth is ... these are things that will "enslave" you to some degree. I would say time is of the essence for you. Start sacrificing ... RIGHT NOW ... eat ramen noodles ... live cheap ... save money. MONEY = TIME. So if you can live cheap and save money ... you'll have more time. In my opinion .. that's what it boils down to.

I mentioned my age and placements because I came to that VERY crossroad. I chose the easy way out. I did not sacrifice .. I did not take a risk ... I did not INVEST IN ME! The sky was the limit for me then ... I just didn't go after it. After plenty of confirmation that I was in the right lane.

7 years can fly by ... And to me .. each year FEELS faster than the one before.

I'm stronger and better than ever ... because for those 7 years ... I made productive use of my free time. And continued to fight. But when your free time is necessarily consumed with production. and your day job pays your mortgage, car payment, bills, credit card debt. There's not a lot of time to generate funds to invest in yourself.

YOU STAY IN CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE! Something drove you to get into this and stick with it up to now. ESPECIALLY as a producer ... You have something special tugging on you. Don't ignore it.

NOTE: I don't think producers are smarter than DJ's. I just think audio production is a MUCH deeper, MORE technical CRAFT.

I supplement my income by DJ'ing on the nights and weekends. I would suggest you do that to.

I may sound frantic and panicky ... but ... you are at an age where you can still create your own balance! And balance is key to everything.

Best of luck.

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Originally Posted by Bigtyme7

lot of mixed thoughts not an easy decision to make.

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Just curious if you have a soundcloud OP so I can see how much you have learned producing in 3 years. It would give a better assumption on telling you to pursue your music fulltime or not, your in the same situation as me. Do I go all in or only half in?

Ya I'll post up my latest work in progress tomorrow so you guys can see I have a sound cloud but not much is on it due to the fact that I have a hard time staying on track and finishing songs because of my add. I'll do that tomorrow though I'm am emt and I'm at work right now

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Originally Posted by Bigtyme7

Ya I'll post up my latest work in progress tomorrow so you guys can see I have a sound cloud but not much is on it due to the fact that I have a hard time staying on track and finishing songs because of my add. I'll do that tomorrow though I'm am emt and I'm at work right now

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Finishing songs should be the start then we can judge from a finished song.

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Originally Posted by AllDay

Finishing songs should be the start then we can judge from a finished song.

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D*mn good point. Maybe I jumped the gun with my speech. At some point I should have said that ...

If your stuff isn't HOT .. you may want to stay in school.

I NEVER suggested to quit a job, though. My point was to DO IT while you can. TRY while you can ... and to TRY HARDER and HARDER ... (when you REALLY do that ... good things start happening TO you.)

You could slip and fall out of the shower and die on some flukey BS ... life is short. make it sweet. I have a saying that motivates me:

"Peace and beauty lay just beyond sweat and blood."

Cheesy and ghey .. But think about it.

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Originally Posted by jshawpro

D*mn good point. Maybe I jumped the gun with my speech. At some point I should have said that ...

If your stuff isn't hot .. you may want to stay in school.

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Your points are always full of info so when I come into a thread there is only about a sentence of untouched info I can give! LOL,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AllDay

Your points are always full of info so when I come into a thread there is only about a sentence of untouched info I can give! LOL,

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HAHA ... my apologies! I fell in love with music again when I started playing out last year. I can't turn it off. The passion was suppressed by my own doing for a long time. And because it's the holidays ... I've had time to hop on the forum and talk about my passion. It helps me grow ... I'm finding.

I'm back to work full time tomorrow ... so there should be some real estate left for you. BUT WILL BE BACK!
Plus I'm releasing my first EP since I was 16 on the 15th. All my work has been for others after about 18.
I want to BLOW PEOPLE AWAY. So for that reason, too ... I'll be on less.

And there I go rambling again ... CYA!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jshawpro

At 20 years old ... If you're going to do it ... DO IT! RIGHT NOW! I'm 29 ... at 22 I had placements w/ Tech N9ne ... and some other very notable independent artists. In your personal life ... avoid or be very cautious with credit cards ... relationships ... making babies. Also take care of yourself (health wise) These are things that will hinder your creative growth ... IF YOU ALLOW THEM TO. And all those things are GREAT things ... BUT the truth is ... these are things that will "enslave" you to some degree. I would say time is of the essence for you. Start sacrificing ... RIGHT NOW ... eat ramen noodles ... live cheap ... save money. MONEY = TIME. So if you can live cheap and save money ... you'll have more time. In my opinion .. that's what it boils down to.

I mentioned my age and placements because I came to that VERY crossroad. I chose the easy way out. I did not sacrifice .. I did not take a risk ... I did not INVEST IN ME! The sky was the limit for me then ... I just didn't go after it. After plenty of confirmation that I was in the right lane.

7 years can fly by ... And to me .. each year FEELS faster than the one before.

I'm stronger and better than ever ... because for those 7 years ... I made productive use of my free time. And continued to fight. But when your free time is necessarily consumed with production. and your day job pays your mortgage, car payment, bills, credit card debt. There's not a lot of time to generate funds to invest in yourself.

YOU STAY IN CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE! Something drove you to get into this and stick with it up to now. ESPECIALLY as a producer ... You have something special tugging on you. Don't ignore it.

NOTE: I don't think producers are smarter than DJ's. I just think audio production is a MUCH deeper, MORE technical CRAFT.

I supplement my income by DJ'ing on the nights and weekends. I would suggest you do that to.

I may sound frantic and panicky ... but ... you are at an age where you can still create your own balance! And balance is key to everything.

Best of luck.

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some good points made here, I am also 29 and I feel that I only just now have come to understand myself and what I really want. My advice, if you love it, do as much of it as you can and wait for your opportunity, be ready when it presents itself. However im not freaking out about it being too late, not at all. the beauty of Djing and producing is it isnt as age prejudice as other apparatus, i.e being a successful rock band, or a movie star....
we have all the time to appreciate and grow, some of the biggest names out there are approaching 50. Granted to get gigs as a dj it might serve to be not so old, but what we are really talking about here, is making it, and for that you need your own productions and thats something that you can work your way up to... Overnight success is overrated, the progression should be in enjoyed...smell the roses and all that..... and jshawpro says, no unplanned pregnancies.... I have a little boy, im just fortunant that my lifestyle and job enables me to chase that dream, really I have such a great platform to do it, it would be something horrible if i didn't try.

I'm also at this crossroad, however im leaning to dj as a hobby and source of extra income.
What I can say for sure is, if you buy a place to live in with your girl or thinking of getting a kid, that are things that will lock you up.

im 21 and bought a flat year ago but i already had to sacrifice my dj booth when we moved in. Now i occupy the kitchen table.. but that doesnt really work out well. I want to move but she does not, stuff like this you should try to avoid if you want to make a career!:)

I have a friend that has several vinyl releases on VERY respectable Drum n' Bass labels, and even he has a part-time day job. So rather than have a career where DJing/Producing is the side action, for him it's the other way around. He has a Pre-Med degree that he didn't pursue any further, because he got his first release on 31 Records around the time he graduated. It's been 4 years since then, and he's about to drop his first full-length album. LOL, if I told Y'all what this Pre-Med graduate's side job was, you would certainly laugh, and I can only imagine what his folks must think as well, but despite all of that he IS living the dream.

So I agree, if you want to "make it", you have to bring DJing/Producing to the forefront of your life. However, just because you give it your all doesn't necessarily guarantee success. This fact reminds me of a quote/sample (on EZ Rollers - Retro) by the wise one, Derrick May, when he said thus - "Some of these guys will never make a dime. Some of these guys will be poor & dying alone. But in the process they've been the true renegades, and the true rebels always walk alone anyway."

In other words, pursue your passions with your all, but there are no guarantees in life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JyPgxhlHjg

Darius Syrossian quit his job as a chef to DJ/produce full time. Was just about to go back when he caught his big break.
He posted a massive speech on Facebook a bit back about never quitting etc.

what is the measure of success though? People calling you to spin their parties? One night a week at a bar or club? very night flying around the world sleeping on planes? You dont need to give up your whole life to be successful at something, just re-evaluate what success is to you.

A lot of really good points I like the conversation thanks guys for inspiring me. I'll work on finishing the song and as soon as I do I'll post it up here and you guys can tell me how bad I suck ;) jk I hope not haha

Alright guys I have a rough draft all finished up it's not mastered or polished or anything like that but would you guys want to see it?

there's the track tell me what you guys think

I may not be in a position of authority on this but my take on this is dependent on all sorts of variables and definitions, a bunch of which have been touched upon.

I'm an engineer so we'll start with the definition:

Successful - you can't just say its the endpoint. I know quite a few producers/DJs who would consider being able to feed themselves with music to be success. I know others that don't care if they starve as long as they do something new (which happens to be the category who tend to produce the best music and also garner the best income from it, but definitely not always). I know a ton of young (like me) DJs and producers who are expecting to "hit it big" and would be disappointed to not sell out stadium shows.

Now in every field it has always been my opinion that there are two factors in achieving success: hard work and creativity. Depending on your particular definition of success they can be more or less important and its never just one road.

How this is relevant to the question is that in music and art in general the creativity tends to be much more important. As a mechanical engineer I know quite a few people who have "made it" through pure unbridled effort with little innovation on their own part. That doesn't happen with music.

There are two ways producers/DJs reach stadium sell-out success (and this is largely true on all levels of success): They make a new, interesting, and original sound/style, or they work their balls off playing other people's new interesting sounds and get lucky. (oh yeah, luck is definitely in all of this)

The question of full time producer is really one of time management coupled with what I'll call "creative inflation". Clearly the latter of the two success paths is significantly more difficult.
The faster you learn, the less time you need to learn a set of skills (be it DAW mastery or music theory). The same thing goes with creativity; the more creative and abstract your mind is the more likely you are to develop something new, which is the key to "success". If you're the Einstein of electronic music and you happen to create the concept for the next giant sub genre without a billion hours of slowly evolving your Electro tracks, you can spend that billion hours working a day job and walking your dog (slightly unlikely believe it or not). This is not to say if you weren't working your day job you wouldn't produce a billion hours more awesome new music, but you still got somewhere that might have taken significantly longer with less creativity.

Now taking into account that most people (including a lot of very successful producers) tend to be farther towards the hard work end of the spectrum, the time issue gets more complicated. Lets say you could work full time at producing and come up with a sound and have it done in a month, or you could take a year to do it and work a day job. The issue with this is that while you would seemingly be 1/12 as likely to "make it" with something new, you are significantly less so for two reasons: your rate of proficiency growth slows as a correlation to your decrease in time spent, and the likelihood of someone else (who does produce full time) having the same idea and finishing it first drastically increases. A new synth sound or weird time signature might not have this to be as much of a concern, but something like a new method of live performance or a new way to utilize your software definitely does.


So your chances are lower by more than just the decreased time. That being said this is all a probability scale. All you can do is increase the chances that people will like your music enough to boost you to "success".



Its about what you want to do.
Do you want to make a ton of money and you like music? Keep it as a hobby.
Do you want to headline Ultra no matter the cost? Get prepared to starve and probably not succeed but your chances improve drastically (about 40 hours a week) if you go full time.
Do you just want to eat and make some absolutely awesome tunes? Here's where you'll have to evaluate if you can make more time to produce by working a better paying part time job than gigging as a DJ for fewer effective hours, and whether the easier money is worth the less entertaining job.

There are a ton more facets to this and DJTT blog has a bunch of awesome advice as to the business of DJing/producing, I only hope that my brain isn't so fried that this was just a massive post of babble.