DJs using sound engineers

Obviously it's something that has gone on for a while, maybe more so recently as the electronic music world expands.

What are people's thoughts on a DJ using a sound engineer? Is it right for a DJ to have tracks written for him? Or for a DJ never even to look at a DAW and have all his tracks produced, such as ghost writing?

Is it ok for a DJ to seek help when writing?

I know a few that I could name drop, but not sure that would be morally right, so let's just keep it to your thoughts on the subject.

Discuss.

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Originally Posted by joemanton

Obviously it's something that has gone on for a while, maybe more so recently as the electronic music world expands.

What are people's thoughts on a DJ using a sound engineer? Is it right for a DJ to have tracks written for him? Or for a DJ never even to look at a DAW and have all his tracks produced, such as ghost writing?

Is it ok for a DJ to seek help when writing?

I know a few that I could name drop, but not sure that would be morally right, so let's just keep it to your thoughts on the subject.

Discuss.

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Morning Joe,

Nice to have the sun shining on our city for a change.


im not sure were your going with this question matey, are you talking about for production and having a masterer for your tracks or for a live djin set were the engineer tweaks the eq volume etc while you dj??

Morning Kdogg,

It's sunny, but I've still had to whip out the old scarf this morning! I was hoping to have a techno BBQ this weekend but Manchester is expecting rain. Shocker!


No, nothing to do with mastering or live sets. When I say sound engineer I don't mean the type you find at a venue. I mean the sound engineers that have proficient skills in Ableton/Logic or any other type of DAW. This in essence, means that DJs who can't produce (and feel the need to), seek these people and say; write me a techno track or write me a dubstep track. This comes at an expense obviously.

Now, what I'm asking if do people see a problem with this. If a DJ has an idea for a track but doesn't have the technically capacity to carry this out so he goes to an engineer and they sit down together and the engineer writes the track with the DJs input. However, the is another side. Some DJs simply email an engineer and say "write me a deep house track". This is called 'Ghost Writing'.

I'm just wondering if anyone has issues with this...

A techno BBQ, sounds good fun! Were was my invite? ha


Ahh i see what your on about now, ummm i kinda do this at work at times; sometimes im the producer for some of the tv shows we commision but i dont have the editing skills to make the show, i will sit in the editing suete with a editor and tell him what to do, so the idea will be coming from me or whoever but the editor puts it together...

in regards to music etc, i suppose this is what most pop artists do... they recieve a beat/song and then write the lyrics (sometimes dont even do that) and sing over it.

i would probably sit down with a engineer and run through it but mainly so that i could learn how to use the DAW whilst with him....

ghost writing im not too sure about....

is this something your thinking of doing Joe?

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Originally Posted by joemanton

What are people's thoughts on a DJ using a sound engineer? Is it right for a DJ to have tracks written for him? Or for a DJ never even to look at a DAW and have all his tracks produced, such as ghost writing?

Is it ok for a DJ to seek help when writing?

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There's 2 perspectives here, a producer perspective and a DJ perspective. I think as a DJ it's not necessary to have any original tracks at all, and that DJing as an artform is pretty much independent of making original music. So as a DJ if you have someone producing original stuff for you, like you're working with a producer who can't DJ and you're a DJ who can't produce, I see no problem with it.

From a producer/musician perspective obviously it's really lame to stamp your name on stuff you didn't make.

I think it's important to keep the 2 separated in a discussion like this even though there's a lot of overlap between the 2 nowadays. It's different if the person is a DJ, a producer, or a producer + DJ. Like as a DJ I think it's assumed that much of the music you play isn't yours, and as a producer I think it's assumed that all of the music you release is yours. I think for a producer/DJ it's the same as being a producer... it's a bit corny to take credit for someone else's work.

BUT I can't say it's completely black and white, there could be legitimate reasons for a producer/DJ releasing stuff that's not him but in general it's probably rare and in most cases it's not cool.

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Originally Posted by city_boy07

A techno BBQ, sounds good fun! Were was my invite? ha

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Soon as I have one dude when the weather is better I will give you a shout. Decks in the garden, bliss!

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Originally Posted by city_boy07

is this something your thinking of doing Joe?

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Definitely not. I like to think I have a lot more pride than to try pass something off as my own. You may get a lot of praise but at the back of your mind there must always be that guilt that you didn't actually have any input in the original track.

I would love the opportunity to sit down with a sound engineer for tips/tricks and hopefully he could help me express my ideas on the screen. Unfortunately, I haven't had that chance yet.

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Originally Posted by Vekked

BUT I can't say it's completely black and white, there could be legitimate reasons for a producer/DJ releasing stuff that's not him but in general it's probably rare and in most cases it's not cool.

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I don't think it's as rare as you may think Vekked. Especially with high end DJs who haven't time to sit down and write. And I agree, it's very lame passing something off as your own.

I agree, that sitting down with an engineer to help right is absolutely fine. After all they are the professionals and if you are a DJ you don't exactly have the time to sit down and learn a DAW inside out. That's where the engineer can help you enhance your knowledge through the DAW. If that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by joemanton

Soon as I have one dude when the weather is better I will give you a shout. Decks in the garden, bliss!



Definitely not. I like to think I have a lot more pride than to try pass something off as my own. You may get a lot of praise but at the back of your mind there must always be that guilt that you didn't actually have any input in the original track.

I would love the opportunity to sit down with a sound engineer for tips/tricks and hopefully he could help me express my ideas on the screen. Unfortunately, I haven't had that chance yet.

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Yeh id defo want to do something like that, a great way to learn is to shadow people and watch what they do....

I didnt think it would be something you'd do, ive already heard some of your stuff and its pretty good already.

Yeh decks in the garden, sounds a good plan. B2B?

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Originally Posted by city_boy07

Yeh id defo want to do something like that, a great way to learn is to shadow people and watch what they do....

I didnt think it would be something you'd do, ive already heard some of your stuff and its pretty good already.

Yeh decks in the garden, sounds a good plan. B2B?

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Exactly. It's not different that watching videos on youtube. Only difference in this case, is that the tutor is actually in the room.

Thanks dude!

And definitely, can't wait til the weather picks up. Will get the BBQ and speakers out.

The thread title is misleading.

DJs using 'sound engineers' - Richie Hawtin had used a sound engineer for years who makes sure all the levels and such are right and as loud as they can be without damaging his hears, etc.

A 'producer' using an engineer/paying someone else to make/master/engineer their beats.
Sorry if this has already been said but I only read the op...

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Originally Posted by Superfreak

The thread title is misleading.

DJs using 'sound engineers' - Richie Hawtin had used a sound engineer for years who makes sure all the levels and such are right and as loud as they can be without damaging his hears, etc.

A 'producer' using an engineer/paying someone else to make/master/engineer their beats.
Sorry if this has already been said but I only read the op...

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I agree, that is why if you had carried on reading you would have seen myself explain what I actually meant. The thread therefore, is not misleading. As you pointed out.

Fair point man. MY bad for not reading the whole thread

Sasha used to use Tom Frederikse a lot in the early-mid 90's for his tracks, it wasn't hidden away as such as Tom was very much credited. I suppose back then it was very expensive to get in to production as it was generally hardware based with maybe some form of software sequencer and to learn the ropes you probably need someone with all this kit. Now it's pretty much all in the box, so much more accessible and tbh with all the online tutuition, a bit of time spent, you can self learn so much now. But there is a big difference between knowing how to do something and having the musical ability to create a great track - that is the difficult bit :)

I'm almost certain Martin Buttrich writes and engineers A LOT of tracks for the likes of Loco Dice, tINI and other people related to the Desolat label. You just hear Buttrich's sound shining through in tracks of those people.

But most of the time, I think a sound engineer just makes sure everything regarding the volume is correct and that is something I encourage, because engineering tends to distract a lot from writing music since you're always busy dealing with making it sound correct. Ben sims by example has an audio engineer (Paul Mac) who deals with all of the levels and such.

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Originally Posted by JDFS

I'm almost certain Martin Buttrich writes and engineers A LOT of tracks for the likes of Loco Dice, tINI and other people related to the Desolat label. You just hear Buttrich's sound shining through in tracks of those people.

But most of the time, I think a sound engineer just makes sure everything regarding the volume is correct and that is something I encourage, because engineering tends to distract a lot from writing music since you're always busy dealing with making it sound correct. Ben sims by example has an audio engineer (Paul Mac) who deals with all of the levels and such.

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I know a lot of people use Hauswerks. Especially at the minute. You can hear their sound everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Superfreak

The thread title is misleading.

DJs using 'sound engineers' - Richie Hawtin had used a sound engineer for years who makes sure all the levels and such are right and as loud as they can be without damaging his hears, etc.

A 'producer' using an engineer/paying someone else to make/master/engineer their beats.
Sorry if this has already been said but I only read the op...

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Benny Benassi doesnt make any of his tracks, but his name is on them. His brother wriites, produces and masters most of his music. Benny just gets the fame from playing it out.

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Originally Posted by balakoth

Benny Benassi doesnt make any of his tracks, but his name is on them. His brother wriites, produces and masters most of his music. Benny just gets the fame from playing it out.

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Source?

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Originally Posted by joemanton

Source?

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Sure ill hunt down something.. Its only been common knowledge for the last decade. Its how Teisto started out, and still uses a ghost producer simply because of his schedule demands.

Alot of the new 20 million dollar Djs do the same thing. Spor started alot of "Skrillexs" songs. In fact Skrillexes sound from his new album from the last has changed.. Because his laptop got lifted, and the patches he contracted another producer to create were lost.

shrug. Been happening in music since its inception

Pretty much a bunch of bullshit, the guys/gals who use "engineers". Its a fucking ghost writer pretty much. There are us guys who spend countless hours creating music from the ground up, and there are assclowns who (maybe) sit next to a real producer and just look pretty while the "Engineer" actually writes the track. This is bullshit and not ok. I know plenty of guys who do this, infact I have frends and colleagues who do this, but it is not ok!!

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Originally Posted by JDFS

I'm almost certain Martin Buttrich writes and engineers A LOT of tracks for the likes of Loco Dice, tINI and other people related to the Desolat label. You just hear Buttrich's sound shining through in tracks of those people.

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fact!

Glad you agree! From what I've read, Buttrich is a shy person and a hell of a producer/writer. He just likes to help people out and isn't much of a forefront person, unfortunately. His livesets are so good... I even know for certain that he's the big boss and braind of Desolat, instead of Loco Dice, the latter just receiving the fame and saying he's the label boss etc. bla bla bla.

Dubfire uses an engineer too, but I'm pretty certain he writes those tracks, just like Richie Hawtin/Plastikman did 20 years ago. Those guys are just unbelievable, too bad the music they nowadays 'spin' sucks. Deep Dish was the shit! Just like those acid tracks from Richie.

Tiesto too. I think that's quite well known.

http://news.beatport.com/blog/2012/0...aakop-reijers/

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Originally Posted by LanceBlaise

Pretty much a bunch of bullshit, the guys/gals who use "engineers". Its a fucking ghost writer pretty much. There are us guys who spend countless hours creating music from the ground up, and there are assclowns who (maybe) sit next to a real producer and just look pretty while the "Engineer" actually writes the track. This is bullshit and not ok. I know plenty of guys who do this, infact I have frends and colleagues who do this, but it is not ok!!

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No, it's not ghost writing. People use engineers to put across their ideas, engineers purely just carry out the process.

Look at Goldie, for instance. He is credited to making the best drum & bass album of all time. He had an engineer with him all the time, but it's all HIS ideas.

If you're thinking an engineer just produces a track with little to no input from the original producer then you're very delusional.

No. Anyone who puts their name on a piece of work created by someone else, especially to help gain fame and income, is a fake. Gaining help and instruction from your peers and collaboration giving credit where credit is due is perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by hellnegative

No. Anyone who puts their name on a piece of work created by someone else, especially to help gain fame and income, is a fake. Gaining help and instruction from your peers and collaboration giving credit where credit is due is perfectly fine.

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What's an engineer without an idea?

Yes but Rob Playford is also credited on pretty much album he has ever engineered.

Both in the written by and engineered by sections.

That's not even a valid argument. Rob Playford produced his own tracks as well. There's a reason Goldie is known for such great tunes, and that's his ideas. You can know the ins and outs of every music production suite/SSL desk, but if you haven't got the imagination to express the idea, you may as well give up (or be an engineer!).

http://www.discogs.com/Goldie-Timeless/release/2399 Rob is mentioned about 3 times there.

Some of you don't realize that professional music production is largely a team effort. Watch a video of any famous producer in the studio - they most likely are not sitting there alone.

There are lots of different people working behind the scenes of any track to make it happen. By default, any pro studio is going to have at least a tracking engineer there to accompany an artist and help them do what they need to do with the studio's equipment (record, set up mics, hook up gear, whatever) since it's not likely that the artist knows exactly how to work everything in the studio.

So where do you draw the line? Is setting up a synth for the artist to play on and quantizing his notes "cheating?" Is telling the artist "yeah that sounds good, keep that synth line!" or "here why don't you try using this mic to get a better sound" cheating? Is that being "fake?" How much creative input does someone put into the song before they get credited for writing it? Where do you draw the line? You can't. You don't know what goes on at those studio sessions.

Also, it is 100% standard procedure to send each track of a song off to a mix engineer to do the mixing. He can make some creative changes to the song too. From there, the mixed tracks get sent to a mastering engineer who dials in the final tone and dynamics of the song. So you've got those people working on the track as well.

Bottom line is that nobody produces professional music entirely by themselves, there are LOTS of other people that work on any given song apart from the artist. Trying to look at who's doing what under a microscope and determining the legitimacy of the artist from that is ridiculous.

I believe that the artist sitting back and watching someone else do the work for them while they throw ideas at them is cheating. Why be lazy. When you have that person there why not jump in, have them show you how to make that sound, operate that equipment, etc. If you dont understand theory, phrasing, and structure then learn.

They don't just sit there and look away from the desk/screen/whatever whilst they throw ideas at them.

http://www.residentadvisor.net/podca...x?exchange=138

Listen to this, it may enlighten you.

Goldie has maintained the same sound throughout the years despite using several different engineers such as Rob Playford, Optical, Dan Miracle, Tech Itch and Audio. Goldie tunes still have a signature sound.

His engineer nowadays is Jim Heist renowned jump up drum & bass producer! I think that says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Ko4l7gLg4

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Originally Posted by OmniRoss

His engineer nowadays is Jim Heist renowned jump up drum & bass producer! I think that says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Ko4l7gLg4

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I thought it was Audio, not Heist. My fault.

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Originally Posted by OmniRoss

His engineer nowadays is Jim Heist renowned jump up drum & bass producer! I think that says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Ko4l7gLg4

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Christ.. what happened to drum & bass

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Originally Posted by thepanache

Christ.. what happened to drum & bass

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There's still a ton of good shit out there. Unfortunately, lowest common denominator sells.