S8 Volume / Headroom Issues?

[groovejedi]

Hello all,

I've been playing on the S8 for a few days now. I've been sick at home so have put some hours on this thing the last few days. I've hit a few road bumps but managed to figure out things either on my own, or with the help of the manual and message boards such as this one. I am now reaching out for help on a few issues that have me stumped and confused.

I have the latest version of everything and running on a 2013 Macbook Pro 13" Retina OSX 10.9.5 with TSP. I have Decks A and B as track decks, timecode vinyl on Deck C and Deck D is my remix deck. I am mixing and recording internal mode with Autogain ON and Limiter OFF. My latency is set to 512. At the moment I have 2 quarter inch cables going out to monitors and 2 RCA to the mains. I have not tested the XLR connection yet because I haven't had my XLR cables (should have them back tomorrow).

I've restarted/rebooted my machine, Traktor and the S8 several times. This issue has been with me since I switched from TP2 to TSP which I did when I installed the S8. Prior to that, I had never seen these issues before.

Here are my issues:

1) I am unable to control the main volume gain inside Traktor. It is "greyed out" or locked at 0.0dB. When I try to move it, it says "Recorded Track from Loop Recorder" (???) and won't allow me to make any adjustments ... The meters at the top of the screen are well into the red (although I'm not clipping live) and I can't lower it ... I've restarted several times and this won't go away.

2) It also shows the recorder level meter way too high, even when set to 0.0, it hits the red. I have to lower it all the way down to -12.0dB in order for it to meter in a safe range (70-75%). I am assuming this could be because the internal main volume gain might be too hot (but I can't lower it). Prior to the new setup, I never had to lower the recorder's volume gain that much or even past -2dB. On my old setup (TSP, S4 mk 1 and 2), I would normally lower the internal volume gain a little so it's not hitting in the red, and make up for it with the controller's gain as well as -6dB headroom to give me more space for channel volumes (or vice versa / combination of, depending on my speakers) ... I dunno if that makes sense. In any case, never saw the recorder meter hit this high before.

Here's a screenshot of what I'm talking about. You won't see the recorder level very high because the screenshot was grabbed on an off beat (no kick/bass). Any idea why I can't adjust the main volume within traktor?



3) When troubleshooting these 2 issues, I noticed that there is no longer a headroom setting in Traktor Preferences (under Limiter). Before upgrading software to Scratch, I had always set my headroom to -6dB and it has become part of my work flow as far as how I set my volume and dial in my levels. I have come to rely on it as well as being able to adjust the internal traktor volume in addition to the S8 main volume. Where did this setting disappear to? Is it no longer needed with the S8? If so, why not? Is it possible to still set this manually in the tsi file? If not, what is it set at?

All of my traktor settings are pretty much the same (with a few exceptions) as they were before I switched controllers and switched from Pro to Scratch Pro.

4) A separate issue. I cannot figure out how to read Mixed In Key Camelot values on the S8's screens, as they only display Traktor values. I tried updating keynotation Value to 3 in the tsi file (as found on a thread in the NI forums), using Text Wrangler but it didn't work. Is there a workaround for this so that I can see the Camelot notations on the S8 screens?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

[vzk]

I don't think this has something to do with TSP or TP2. I'm using the latest TP2, and the master volume is grayed out in my SW, too.

[groovejedi]

I don't think this has something to do with TSP or TP2. I'm using the latest TP2, and the master volume is grayed out in my SW, too.

You're on an S8? So this is an S8 thing then?

If you are, why aren't you on Scratch?

[mostapha]

Does the "Main" control on the S8 do anything? Does that master gain control do anything when the S8 isn't plugged in?

Have you tried turning off auto-gain and running your channel gains lower? NI software (as a whole, not just traktor) has a really bad habit of running everything hot as hell by default. I've noticed some significant sound quality improvements just from running the track gains significantly lower, and that's coming from a starting point of having not-incorrect levels coming out of it to start with.

[groovejedi]

Does the "Main" control on the S8 do anything? Does that master gain control do anything when the S8 isn't plugged in?

Have you tried turning off auto-gain and running your channel gains lower? NI software (as a whole, not just traktor) has a really bad habit of running everything hot as hell by default. I've noticed some significant sound quality improvements just from running the track gains significantly lower, and that's coming from a starting point of having not-incorrect levels coming out of it to start with.

Hi mostapha, thanks for the reply.

If I load Traktor with the S8 unplugged, I have my Gain control back. It is set to default 0.0dB at 2 o'clock. As soon as I unplug the S8, it becomes locked and the 0.0dB changes to the 12 o'clock position.

I've noticed what you're referring to in the past, which is why I always used more headroom. But now that setting is gone. I had to rely on auto-gain when I was on the S4 and saving new values in later TP releases was helpful as well. On the S4, you also had the click gain knobs which could cancel the auto level if you need it. I always loaded and clicked all 4 tracks before beginning my set, set my theoretical "max" point and then learned to never go over that point. Auto-gain for the most part did it's job and I made up for it by having more headroom which helped me create space for my mixes.

I have not tried this on the S8 yet but will do so tonight and report back. It sounds like it makes sense that the S8 doesn't need autogain whereas the S4 sorta did (for me at least).

Any idea about the headroom thing?

On the S8 channel meters, we have 7 blue and 4 red lights. I wish it was 3 yellow and 1 red.

On the mains, it's 5 blue, 2 red.

I am basically using my ear and also "aiming" for one red and no higher. Will uncheck autogain and see what happens.

Thanks!

[mostapha]

Well, the only thing I really have to add is that Traktor's meters are kind of a joke. They don't all show the same scale, and they top out at weird places IMO.

I'd think about just using the meters on the S8 itself, setting the gains yourself, and figuring out where they should be based on running the S8 output into something with a real meter (any DAW works, including audacity).

[Tarekith]

Must leave the record headroom set to -12 as well, works fine for recoding at least. I too was surprised they moved the previous headroom options under the limiter tab in the preferences, that was really useful.

[groovejedi]

Must leave the record headroom set to -12 as well, works fine for recoding at least. I too was surprised they moved the previous headroom options under the limiter tab in the preferences, that was really useful.

Tarekith - do you have that same "locked" internal volume gain issue that I mentioned in the original post?

[Tarekith]

Yes, pretty sure I do, though I don't have the S8 handy the moment to double-check. I'll take a look later though.

[viper9711]

Same here- internal volume is locked when S8 is connected