Best Ableton Controller

**mostapha** · 05-29-2010, 06:37 PM

Here's how I have mine mapped…delete this post if it's OT:

Unlabeled controls don't do anything.

1+2 - Effects controls: Slect Bank, Slect Effect, Param 1, Param 2 for each of 2 identical Audio Effect Racks in sends. The "Track View" buttons for these 2 actually look at the Audio Effect Racks in the Return Tracks. I have the actual return tracks hidden.

3 - Buttons are clip launchers, knobs are 4-band Full Kill EQs with 0dB at far right.

4 - I forgot 4.

5 - Gain for channels 1, 2, 3, 4

6 - Effects Dry/Wet. Getting this functionality requires a hack. For each audio channel and send, you make another audio channel that duplicates its signal and reverse the phase…then, map the controller so that turning up "Send A" also turns up the channel volume for that track/effect combinations negating signal…turns the sends into Dry/Wet knobs.

6a - Effect dry/wet range…up is dry/wet, down is dry/almost-wet. These controls actually change the track volume of Group tracks for the negating channels from -3dB to 0dB…that way full wet isn't always full wet. it's amazing how much this smooths out some effects.

7 - Hi-Pass cutoff and resonance controls. They're set so that F all the way down turns the filter off.

8 - each track's buttons are "Cue, View Clip, View track"

9 - Stop and Play buttons. Stop stops all clips in that track, Play plays the clip in the selected scene.

10 - Low and High mid-boosts with a very short delay for each channel.

11 - Chain Select (chooses between patches), Track Play, and Volume for my Synths…most of them are Analog patches, I think one is an Operator patch.

12 - No effect, Track play, and volume for my drum machine.

13 - Looping, reassigned to be clip-specific.

14 - All of these controls are assigned to a dummy Audio Effect Rack that doesn't do anything. I use a hardware knob to control my cue level, I don't want master volume or pan, and the buttons are actually master play and record, which I also don't want to bump. I can't think of anything I want to do with them right now.

15 - Tempo section is basically as default, except the gross tempo slider only goes 126 to 150.

16 - the Crossfader actually affects my headphone signal…to the right is monitoring the master, left is basically split cue with the cue signal being based on the cue buttons in section 8. I don't use the crossfader or CF assignment to mix at all.

17 - Scene selection. When you press it, nothing happens…by default, pressing it launches the selected scene.

18 - Volume knobs top out at 0dB, not +6dB as per default.

And the screenshot. It makes for a very clean and straightforward setup.

The red channels monitor effects channels for level or are the negating groups, blue channels are decks, pink channels are synth and drum machine channels, and the grey channel has to do with my monitoring setup. There are also 4 return tracks (2 for effects, 2 for my monitoring setup) that are hidden.

The clip slots that i have direct control over are color-coded (in the master channel), and the scene knob gives me access to the rest of them.

**mmauve** · 05-29-2010, 09:35 PM

That pretty much answers all my concerns, frankly your mapping makes more sense with respect to the work flow aspect. Is the tempo slider your typical 7-bit MIDI signal?, I'm kinda hoping that the stepping on it is higher resolution so it can be used to more fine resolution when working with someone who is using a typical club setup (i.e: taking over a booth from a CDJ user, etc).

Out of curiosity what sound interface are you using with it?.

Great info so far dude, bookmarking that post for future reference

**mostapha** · 05-29-2010, 10:08 PM

Thanks.

I think it's normal midi…seems to be 128-steps (don't have it in front of me) but the "Fine" control works. In Live's midi mapping, there are actually 2 signals for tempo…a gross (the slider) and a fine (the knob) (both by default and how I have it). The gross one, you can set, and I think the fine one is set at a 3 BPM range. I don't think it's quite as precise as a top-end CDJ, but it's plenty to beat-match. I've done sets with Ableton and my CDJs before just to see what it was like, and it works. The pitch bend buttons also work really well, but if you're used to riding a turntable's pitch slider, you could map them backwards (gross tempo on the button, fine on the fader) with no problems. It should be obvious how to do it…if not, PM me.

It's a little weird to take over from another DJ because of the global/launch quantizations…you have to basically stop the set, launch in time, and pitch-bend to all hell. If you want to re-launch then you have to either be close to being in time or stop the set (i.e., press space bar) before you trigger the clip again.

But it's not a big deal as long as they aren't specifically trying to screw you.

And I'm using an FS Open interface (link). It works fine, as it's actually a decent-quality 6-in, 6-out 24/96 FW sound card with a headphone amp built in.

I'm looking into upgrading to something different (mostly 'cuz looking at the thing still brings back sour memories of FS2 and what happened when I switched to OS X), but I'm not finding anything that seems functionally better than a Focusrite Sapphire 6 USB until it costs a LOT more than I have sitting around. Some of the numbers (SNR for the DAC, specifically) worry me, though.

And I do have an odd workflow, I've recently found out. I'm one of very few people I know who's live set doesn't have any music in it when I start it up, who's actually dragging in each song. I don't click inside tracks for cues/scrubbing. I don't use dummy clips. I mostly don't layer effects. I don't do mashups.

Mostly, I was almost happy spinning with CDs, but…I edited every track anyway into versions without breakdowns, versions with passages extended, etc.. Now, I do what I need to prep things and those decisions happen right before the change. It doesn't work so well for a lot of the Trance I spin, but it works great for the Techno and a lot of the Prog/Electro/Tech House. And there's nothing actually stopping me from just playing my edits straight through either using follow actions or rendering them into a new audio file like I used to with CDs.

For me, it's just about setting up so that I can make the decisions later and at least do something while the track is playing instead of just standing around waiting to beat match again.

The sad thing is that I could get most of the functionality of Live from Itch and a Xone:dx…the differences are pretty small. But the VCM was cheaper and available when I had the money sitting around to upgrade. I'm happy with my choice.

Mudo · 05-30-2010, 01:46 AM

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Did you try scratchamp 2 with osx core audio "agregate device"? Maybe it works...

Try before sell.

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**mostapha** · 05-30-2010, 02:07 AM

<OT>

Originally Posted by Mudo

...

Did you try scratchamp 2 with osx core audio "agregate device"? Maybe it works...

Try before sell.

...

Hunh?

The FS Open I have works flawlessly. I'm just still pissed at Stanton/NI because I upgraded to a Macbook (don't regret it at all) back when I was on FS2 only to realize that there was no Universal Binary version…FS2 was PPC only. After considering dual-booting windows just for FS2 and talking to an insider (who I think now works for Stanton) I was promised that whatever was coming from NI would use the FS Open interface. Well, it didn't. They've actually come out with and retired another audio interface in the mean time. I don't blame him at all, but NI lost a customer and I switched to SSL only to realize that it was better (at the time, for me) anyway. Frankly, that's also the reason I roll my eyes every time I see someone recommend an Audio 2/4/8 DJ for anything. I'm just waiting until NI releases something else and doesn't support the old card, at least in the "Scratch" version of whatever is coming next.

The reason I use the FS Open now is that I found it in a box of cables about the time I was switching to Ableton Live while I was looking for my analog delay pedal (for my guitar). Apparently, no one ever answered my for-sale thread on DJF, and I'd forgotten about it. Well, it works fine now on OS X without drivers of any kind…just plug it in, select in in Live, set the channels, and go.

But, I'm getting sick of seeing it, 'cuz I'm an asshole who holds a grudge. Traktor Pro, a xone:92, and 2 x1s would be tempting if I had money and didn't have the grudge.

The same thing would have happened to my MBox 2 Mini if I hadn't been able to sell it on facebook marketplace thanks to Avid/Digi's horrible release cycle and not supporting current versions of OS X.

I'm looking forward to the day when I can afford (financially) to throw the interface away or give it to someone else. I'd have done it already, but I have other priorities and money's a bit tight at the moment…not tight enough to make me sell my stuff, but tight enough to make me not by another audio interface when I have a perfectly good one sitting here, no matter how much it churns my stomach to see that Stanton/FS2 Logos.

Man, I type too much.
</OT>

**Wil'** · 05-31-2010, 01:24 AM

Hey I'm also looking for a controller for Ableton for producing but just wondering what people recommend under $200 AUS. Had a look at a few midi keyboards and I'm not really sure what I need to be looking for in a good controller for producing in Ableton so if someone could help me out that would be much appreciated.

Thanks Will.

Mudo · 05-31-2010, 05:48 AM

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<OT>

Audio & Midi Config>Aggregate device>add scratchamp>rename to AUDIO 8 DJ

Traktor 1.2.4 over the net accept ANY sound card osx cappable (this is my only doubt about scratchamp 2) for timecode signal control.

Try for test purposses only. Ever is better buy almost AUDIO 4 DJ.

<OT>

About controller for Ableton... what about ICONS?

http://www.djtechtools.com/2010/03/2...j-controllers/

...

**charo** · 05-31-2010, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by mostapha

<OT>

Hunh?

The FS Open I have works flawlessly. I'm just still pissed at Stanton/NI because I upgraded to a Macbook (don't regret it at all) back when I was on FS2 only to realize that there was no Universal Binary version…FS2 was PPC only. After considering dual-booting windows just for FS2 and talking to an insider (who I think now works for Stanton) I was promised that whatever was coming from NI would use the FS Open interface. Well, it didn't. They've actually come out with and retired another audio interface in the mean time. I don't blame him at all, but NI lost a customer and I switched to SSL only to realize that it was better (at the time, for me) anyway. Frankly, that's also the reason I roll my eyes every time I see someone recommend an Audio 2/4/8 DJ for anything. I'm just waiting until NI releases something else and doesn't support the old card, at least in the "Scratch" version of whatever is coming next.

The reason I use the FS Open now is that I found it in a box of cables about the time I was switching to Ableton Live while I was looking for my analog delay pedal (for my guitar). Apparently, no one ever answered my for-sale thread on DJF, and I'd forgotten about it. Well, it works fine now on OS X without drivers of any kind…just plug it in, select in in Live, set the channels, and go.

But, I'm getting sick of seeing it, 'cuz I'm an asshole who holds a grudge. Traktor Pro, a xone:92, and 2 x1s would be tempting if I had money and didn't have the grudge.

The same thing would have happened to my MBox 2 Mini if I hadn't been able to sell it on facebook marketplace thanks to Avid/Digi's horrible release cycle and not supporting current versions of OS X.

I'm looking forward to the day when I can afford (financially) to throw the interface away or give it to someone else. I'd have done it already, but I have other priorities and money's a bit tight at the moment…not tight enough to make me sell my stuff, but tight enough to make me not by another audio interface when I have a perfectly good one sitting here, no matter how much it churns my stomach to see that Stanton/FS2 Logos.

Man, I type too much.
</OT>

like you said, the scratchamp2 is quality hardware, if its working like you demand it too now, I would use it til it stops working

maybe find a cool sticker you like to look at and put it over the offensive logo?

**mostapha** · 05-31-2010, 02:19 PM

Mudo, that's a cool idea. I've switched to Live anyway, but it's interesting. I have my doubts about whether it'll work since the device identifies itself to the OS/Program…I'd hope that NI isn't dumb enough to fall for that. But it's interesting.

Charo, I do my best to ignore it. When I have the extra money sitting around, I'm going to get rid of it and give it away.