hackintosh/macintosh

[mostapha]

Second, if you are absolutely unwilling to learn about the computer you're using, buy an Apple.…The Apple experience is generally a "walled garden", and they tend to keep you out of places where you might get in trouble. This trade-off makes it harder for a power user to do what they want to do….

Side note to everyone else. Nem and I actually kind of know each other, and I think we still respect each other's opinions. I certainly do.

One question, though…

What–specifically–is harder for power users to do on a Mac as opposed to any other Unix?

Obviously, it's not as tunable as linux when you're building your own kernel. But you don't have to build your kernel for your specific hardware, since Apple already does exactly that. And there is a set of programs that come with OS X to manage kernel extensions if you really want to. And XCode can build them, which also comes with OS X. So you can write them too.

It's not quite as easy to configure a build environment as it is in gentoo in particular…but none of that has all that much to do with end users of audio applications (regardless of their skill level) since there aren't very many at all that are distributed as source…and the ones that are tend to kinda suck IME. There are people who do this kind of thing, but if you're writing your own plugins, extensions, or software, you know how to use g++ and the like.

It is possible to upgrade the ram and hard drives in the current unibody cases, though it does take just a bit more skill than it used to. Also, apparently the current MBPs can support 6GB of memory with a 4GB stick and a 2GB stick with no real loss in speed from using mis-matched sizes, according to Other World Computing.

I've heard this sentiment before, but the truth is that I honestly don't understand where it comes from. I used Linux happily for years before I switched to OS X (almost solely to run SSL and Ableton without dealing with Windows) and apart from Gentoo's package manager making building source easier, I don't really miss anything. I do kind of wish I could get rid of the Dock because I never use it, but I don't actually care. And my UI/Environment in OS X is a lot more tailored to how I work than I ever got Windows to be. And I was a Windows power user. I've used unsupported hardware; I've made systems run stably; I've rebuilt registries by hand following major crashes; and I've had Win systems that didn't get noticeably slower after a couple years of regular use. I just got sick of how hard it was to do anything more advanced than Start -> Programs -> [insert game title/subfolders here]. cmd.exe is useless compared to zsh. And the same is true for most of the tools I actually use.

[loop]

@mostapha - It's not harder to setup build environment on OS X than on Gentoo. Xcode is using gcc BTW (there's a project to replace AFAIK).

and comparing with gentoo's emerge, MacPorts does a very similar job - downloads the source, patches it and builds it. It's not difficult at all - install the MacPorts dmg and then "port install". The ports repository is OK as per what I need from it - a lot of dependencies, but it's very similar to emerge.

+1 on the zsh

[Quenepas]

Get an used Mac with a fresh installed version of OSX updated with Traktor updated. Any old MB would do. I keep my MBP at home and take an old MB to the club.

[mostapha]

@mostapha - It's not harder to setup build environment on OS X than on Gentoo. Xcode is using gcc BTW (there's a project to replace AFAIK).

and comparing with gentoo's emerge, MacPorts does a very similar job - downloads the source, patches it and builds it. It's not difficult at all - install the MacPorts dmg and then "port install". The ports repository is OK as per what I need from it - a lot of dependencies, but it's very similar to emerge.

+1 on the zsh

Portage does make it easier, afaik. Gentoo/Portage was based on the BSD ports system, whci his also what MacPorts is based on. But, it has a decent system in place for setting compiler flags in a global way. MacPorts (which I use…in addition to HomeBrew) doesn't seem to do it as transparently. I know you can do it, but it takes more work than just following the gentoo install instructions.

Reading Material: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handboo...ap=2#doc_chap1

MacPorts/HomeBrew sorta kinda does it…a bit, but there's no way–for example–to tell gcc/g++/whatever to just never compile in support for X windows for applications that have a gui and cli version in the same code. It's possible I just missed it, but it doesn't actually come up that often. Most recently it came up when i realized that a default Ubuntu install doesn't even have a good cli text editor. So, I installed emacs and eventually was greeted with a really ugly GUI version and ended up aliasing emacs to "emacs -nw". I couldn't figure out how to compile it without the GUI version in 2 minutes so I gave up. On gentoo the command would have been (as root) `USE="-X" emerge emacs`. I haven't actually used gentoo in years and that part at least still feels natural except that I can't remember if it's -x or -X.

AFAIK, nothing like that quite exists for OS X…or any other Unix…at least, not at such a global level as Portage can do it.

Oh yeah, and the Portage tree is a lot bigger than MacPorts. There aren't many things I really wanted that I couldn't find in MacPorts and nothing I couldn't just install the old fashioned way, but…the portage tree is bigger. And it's a LOT easier to install older versions of software. I never thought I'd want to do that, but I have to use a python library for a class that a) causes seg faults on OS X, hence running linux as well and b) only runs on python 2.4, which isn't in the Ubuntu or OS X repositories.

And yeah…zsh is amazing. I'm wondering how I ever actually got along with bash or ksh. And no, I don't know why I learned ksh before sh…I just did. We all make mistakes when we're young.

[kiss-o-matic]

What–specifically–is harder for power users to do on a Mac as opposed to any other Unix?

The main turnoff for me (a gentoo user) is 1) I hate Finder. I don't know of any way to use KDE or other Window manager (and it would probably suck anyway) so I don't bother. That doesn't mean I have to wank to Jobs though. I've found Dolphin to be far superior to Explorer or Finder... although it took them ages to get it right.

I've had some rough luck getting Unixy stuff running that doesn't flat out run natively on OSX. That is specifically harder on a Mac I would say. The terminal is crap: just now got Tabs in 10.6 and it seems there's no way to tell Snow Leopard to use Unix behavior (IE, copy w/ highlight and paste w/ middle-click). It's only a feature of the terminal, and not a good one (only uses currently highlighted text -- not last highlighted). Would love to know if I'm totally missing the boat here.

I won't say Portage is the end all be all. It has it's own issues. Overall I love it but it can frustrate the hell out of me. Way better than what anything else can offer though. I'm a certified Red Hat hater.

Now, having said all that, I have little need to run gentoo on my laptop. I do some "work" on it from time to time, but I generally just use the terminal to ssh into a dev machine and do it there, which is fine by me.

[nem0nic]

What–specifically–is harder for power users to do on a Mac as opposed to any other Unix?

First of all, stop calling OSX "Unix". It's not. it's based on Nextstep and Openstep, which is based on parts of BSD (which was based on Mach). A/UX is Apple's Unix variant. That's like calling Windows "DOS".

To specifically answer your question, let's talk about a couple of situations that would come up in a DJ's world. First, the OSX footprint is GIGANTIC. Especially if you're putting together a computer specifically for DJing, there is NO reason to have the OS taking up 14gb. I won't even begin to get into the problems Apple gets into regarding patching because all of the non-OS junk that gets installed by the OS instead of later by the user. In Windows, I can scale that installation size down (yes, even on 7 - but XP is still amazing in this regard) to under 2gb. Important? If you opted for an expensive SSD and have limited space for music, absolutely. Or if your computer came with a drive smaller than your collection. If it were Unix, I would be able to choose what packages I install on the computer, and it wouldn't force me to have iTunes, Flash, and every printer driver ever.

And hardware is a MAJOR problem for me in Apple-Land. It's pretty, absolutely. But NOT AT ALL user friendly. Again, we're being protected by Apple's walled garden. In my Windows world, I can fix a computer that suffers from an HD failure in less than an hour - swapping out the old HD into an enclosure and dropping a new HD into the handy slot you'll find in almost every Windows laptop ever made. I've done this for co-workers and had them not only back up and running, but with information restored from their old HD (with recovery software) before the end of the day. I could get this entire process done in the time it takes a typical MacBook user to wait in a store for service. This applies to all kinds of hardware issues you're prone to get on a laptop.

Just a couple examples.

[jasperjones]

poorly designed pole. both macintosh and hackintosh suck.

[nem0nic]

Poll. A pole is a round rod, one of the intersections of the Earth's axis, or a person from Poland. Unless you MEANT pole - in which case that's just odd.

[Ross]

All I know is that in full screen mode, Traktor looks the same with whatever hardware you use

[loop]

All I know is that in full screen mode, Traktor looks the same with whatever hardware you use

a fact!

cheers man!