hackintosh/macintosh

[ctrld]

Most other companies provide mail-in service (Dell, IBM, and Lenovo in my personal experience, though it's dated) that takes forever.

o rly? I have a 3 year extended warranty for my new thinkpad, which even covers dropping the damn thing by accident. it cost me 90 EUR extra for which I get next day repairs - just call a technician, tell him what's wrong, next morning he's on my door step and the laptop is fixed. doesn't matter if it's the hinges of the display or a new mainboard. apple's 300$ warranty is a fucking joke compared to that

[Nosferatu]

@ctrld

just visited your site and I have one question... saw the vids...

where exactly are you hiding the mac?

I hear music and I see lights, but there's no mac in sight!

c'mon, fess up... we're not stupid enough to think that the music is coming from a windows machine!

[tyfurious]

I buy Mac for the sound drivers and the build quality, which you lose a bit of both with hackintosh... Just spend the money you cheapskates! ;P

[nem0nic]

How many average windows users have a clue what you're talking about there?

I can tell you that one average windows user already asked me about it in this thread. Do you really not see any value in being able to restore your computer to a completely DJ ready image? I think that's the luxury of someone who doesn't rely on their computer to be DJ ready full time. Being able to completely rule out any software issues by creating a restore image is handy for a number of reasons. This kind of imaging is done by just about every computer manufacturer, for the same general reason.

So, what's the problem? Patches/Updates come out for software all the time? Why is this a big deal? Just because microsoft prefers to leave vulnerabilities open and not patch anything?

Really? you should actually READ that article, because it's VERY clear. It talks about 55 out of the 134 patches in the last OSX patch were for flash. That was needed because Apple insists on bundling Flash into their OS install, and all OSX users were running around with really old versions of Flash.

Also, I hope you're kidding about MS not patching security vulnerabilities. Apple's done 7 patches this year, and still has a bunch of unpatched vulnerabilities (dtoa C or the CoreSecurity PDF bug for example). OSX is regularly rated as highly vulnerable by security experts, and a higher percentage of these vulnerabilities are executable over the internet than Windows. Apple gets away with it because they rely on security through obscurity. On the other hand, Microsoft patches (famously) every Tuesday. The FACT is that Apple waits longer to fix vulnerabilities, and does so with much less frequency than Microsoft does. Oh, and that Charlie Miller guy mentioned in that article I linked is an OSX developer and pretty famous security expert. He's not a Windows fanboy. This is what HE has to say about it... http://news.techworld.com/security/3...s-says-hacker/

I don't have a problem with it being marginally harder...

I'll use your tactic and throw back "How many average windows users have a clue what you're talking about there?" SHOULD it be harder for a user to do minor repairs or upgrades to the computer they bought? Why would a manufacturer throw roadblocks in front of ANY user unless it was part of their business model? This sounds like the same kind of nonsense I hear from Apple users about their no longer removable battery. it's apologist bullshit.

I've seen too many people f*** up a HDD or RAM install to think it should be any easier than Apple makes it.

Don't get it twisted. Again, it doesn't NEED to be this hard. In fact, on most Windows machines, it's not. It's MUCH easier and intuitive for a user to swap out a drive on a Windows laptop than it is to replace a drive in a desktop. It's only hard if the manufacturer MAKES it hard. And the only reason they do that is to create dependence for profit.

Find a store from your zip code. Follow the obvious links to the genius bar. You sign up for an appointment, and they tend to not get too far behind. If you wait more than a few minutes, it's because you're too dumb to sign up online.

Oh, so I need to be lucky enough to live near a store, AND I need to sign up online (might be problematic if my computer is broken), and THEN I get to wait for the 19 year old "genius" that's going to pack up my computer and send it to a repair center. And this fantastic service is available to me because I paid $300 extra for a warranty. OK, Gotcha.

Have you ever been to a Genius Bar?

I have indeed. Don't try and paint me as someone who doesn't know what's going on here. I've owned and been using Apple computers longer than you've been alive. I've been using them in professional studio applications since the late 80s. And I'm not down on Apple as a brand - I champion the iPad and their mobile devices regularly. I had an Intel MBP for over 2 years as my work computer (which I used daily). As part of my job, I've worked closely with OSX application developers, and been heavily involved in the creation and testing of that software.

Apples come with a 1-year warranty for free just like every other damn computer maker. You pay to extend it beyond that, just like everyone else.

Most of the computers I've bought in the last few years have come with 2 years of warranty. On dell, to extend the single year some of their computers come with to 3 years, it's $199 (I just looked).

I've NEVER had to send in a laptop for repair. I did get a cross-ship from Dell once for a mainboard issue. It cost me nothing, they sent it overnight, and I just swapped in my HD and sent the old computer back in the box they sent (along with a new shipping label). I didn't have to stand in a line, make a reservation, drive to a mall, or wait for anything. And other than that, I've never had an issue with any of my laptops. And they've been everyday drivers just like yours. My XPS1530 is still rock solid, after using it for personal use, product development, and travel. The ONLY thing I've done is update the BIOS.

I pay for Apple's warranty, and that alone says something.

That's funny, because I'm comforted by the fact that I DIDN'T have to pay for one. Or have a need for it.

But since we're taking about them, I'll also add that Dell's paid for extended warranty covers EVERYTHING (including liquid), includes lojack, and they will send someone to YOUR HOUSE to fix it - for 3 years. I think the Rain Computer extended warranty is even more interesting, because it includes "Encompass". This service gives you support for the audio and video APPLICATIONS you have running on your computer. So if you have an issue with Traktor, they will help you with it. Or ProTools, or Ableton Live, etc. Again, for 3 years.

My time is worth a lot more than playing tech support all the time, which I have to do a LOT less now.

The mantra of every Apple zealot. Wave that flag, brother! The picture this statement paints, of Windows users toiling away in front of their computers endlessly patching and running antivirus software, is comical.

I will continue to use Apple computers in much the same way I've always used them - when the software I'm running works better (or is only available) in that environment, or if I'm developing for that platform. I'm all for using the proper tool for the job. But for personal use, I have no need for Apple computers. And I don't see this changing as long as they keep choosing style over substance.

[ctrld]

c'mon, fess up... we're not stupid enough to think that the music is coming from a windows machine!

actually the music is coming from both a thinkpad and a mac, but it's the thinkpad that is running ableton, maschine and the other CPU-hungry (= important) stuff. the mac only has the endless tone loaded up in TSP. sorry.

BTW, that video is a joke compared to what I'm working on now. just to clarify, I made that one in one afternoon and it was complete impro. it's boring, the downmix sucks and the cuts are pure whackness. I've already spent more time on the new mapping that I have on that entire vid... I hope I'll make it in time for the IDA championships, right now I can only tell you that the possibilities are fucking scary. I need to start writing this shit down or I'll get lost inside my own routings

[mostapha]

Do you really not see any value in being able to restore your computer to a completely DJ ready image?

I do see the value. There are other ways to do it that don't rely on CDs. As an example, Macs can boot from USB or FW hard drives. Or other partitions if you're just worried about a SW screw up.

Restoring from a CD seems more problematic if you're in the booth.

Really? you should actually READ that article, because it's VERY clear. It talks about 55 out of the 134 patches in the last OSX patch were for flash. That was needed because Apple insists on bundling Flash into their OS install, and all OSX users were running around with really old versions of Flash.

I skimmed it. Flash isn't part of the OS, it's in a companion program to their browser. They do that so it won't take down the browser when Flash crashes.

I do wish I could just not install flash, but that's because it's also the only thing that runs slowly on this computer. Flash isn't installed on my Linux build, and it won't be.

Also, I hope you're kidding about MS not patching security vulnerabilities. Apple's done 7 patches this year, and still has a bunch of unpatched vulnerabilities (dtoa C or the CoreSecurity PDF bug for example). OSX is regularly rated as highly vulnerable by security experts, and a higher percentage of these vulnerabilities are executable over the internet than Windows. Apple gets away with it because they rely on security through obscurity. On the other hand, Microsoft patches (famously) every Tuesday. The FACT is that Apple waits longer to fix vulnerabilities, and does so with much less frequency than Microsoft does. Oh, and that Charlie Miller guy mentioned in that article I linked is an OSX developer and pretty famous security expert. He's not a Windows fanboy. This is what HE has to say about it... http://news.techworld.com/security/3...s-says-hacker/

Cool. I was just making fun of Windows and didn't actually mean anything by it, but…I read that article. It didn't mention an exploit that actually used apple's flawed ASLR implementation. I wasn't expecting code, but it didn't even mention him having any. I could talk about this a bit further, but it's not actually worth it. He's technically right, but it's a moot point; hence, me making it into a joke.

If you're worried about your system actually being secure, you should be using SELinux. Period. It's the closest.

Neither Windows nor OS X is actually secure in any way if you have physical access to a machine. If your user isn't dumb and/or you're running any kind of server software, there are holes in your system. OS X ships with more server software than Windows (sshd, apache, vnc, afp, printer sharing, apple remote desktop, xgrid, etc.) so it's obviously going to have more remote exploits.

SHOULD it be harder for a user to do minor repairs or upgrades to the computer they bought?

Yes. I'd prefer it if if hardware upgrades or repairs require a bit more learning or tools. The problem with stupid people is that they don't know they're stupid. Forcing them to learn something other than unscrew and shove…is a good thing. I'd prefer to have a removable battery, so I grant that one.

Oh, so I need to be lucky enough to live near a store, AND I need to sign up online (might be problematic if my computer is broken), and THEN I get to wait for the 19 year old "genius" that's going to pack up my computer and send it to a repair center. And this fantastic service is available to me because I paid $300 extra for a warranty. OK, Gotcha.

Get it through your head that they actually do things at Apple Stores and that a year of service comes free with the computer just like everyone else.

Mostly to prove a point, I took my computer to an Apple store today. At around 2pm, I signed up for an appointment at 4:30. I got there at 4:10 and because no one had signed up for the slot before me, they started helping me at 4:12. By 4:25, my computer was back in my possession. What was wrong with it? Nothing. They took the top case off and vacuumed some dust, lint, cat hair, etc. out of the case and the keyboard.

I've had an optical drive replaced at an Apple Store. Took about 10 minutes and was free, including the hardware.

One day, I spilled an ink well in my keyboard (don't ask). Took it to an Apple Store and because nothing was damaged (though some of the keys were sticky) they just gave me a new top case (including keyboard and trackpad). Took about 30 minutes. No charge. Didn't have an appointment for that one, either.

Most of the computers I've bought in the last few years have come with 2 years of warranty. On dell, to extend the single year some of their computers come with to 3 years, it's $199 (I just looked).

It's $250 for the 13" apples. The difference is mostly a result of what they can replace the screen for.

I've NEVER had to send in a laptop for repair. I did get a cross-ship from Dell once for a mainboard issue. It cost me nothing, they sent it overnight, and I just swapped in my HD and sent the old computer back in the box they sent (along with a new shipping label). I didn't have to stand in a line, make a reservation, drive to a mall, or wait for anything. And other than that, I've never had an issue with any of my laptops. And they've been everyday drivers just like yours. My XPS1530 is still rock solid, after using it for personal use, product development, and travel. The ONLY thing I've done is update the BIOS.

That's cool. In years of using Dell and IBM laptops and desktops, I've never gotten service that good. IBM mailed me a box several times. I never got it back in less than 4 days, and the only times I got it back in less than 7 were when they told me that whatever was wrong wasn't covered by the warranty and I told them not to fix anything.

Dell usually frustrated me on the phone so much that I'd just go out and buy parts for my desktop before I gave up on buying them.

But since we're taking about them, I'll also add that Dell's paid for extended warranty covers EVERYTHING (including liquid), includes lojack, and they will send someone to YOUR HOUSE to fix it - for 3 years. I think the Rain Computer extended warranty is even more interesting, because it includes "Encompass". This service gives you support for the audio and video APPLICATIONS you have running on your computer. So if you have an issue with Traktor, they will help you with it. Or ProTools, or Ableton Live, etc. Again, for 3 years.

Sorry, I'd rather go somewhere than have someone come to my home. But Dell's service also requires you to call them up to diagnose the problem over the phone first.

I have yet to have someone in an Apple store not concede within a minute that I had a clue what I was doing and just fix things instead of trying to "diagnose" an issue that I almost always figured out before I even set up the appointment. When I have to have them diagnose something they sit there–in person–and actually help me figure out what's going on. It's only happened once, but it was a better experience than I've ever had with IBM or Dell.

That guy was the first person I talked to in a service capacity actually figured out something that I couldn't. That hasn't happened anywhere else except at auto mechanics and guitar amp repair shops.

Wave that flag, brother! The picture this statement paints, of Windows users toiling away in front of their computers endlessly patching and running antivirus software, is comical.

That's not the image I have of Windows users. The image I have of windows users (more so of anyone who runs a wireless AP with SSID="linksys") is people constantly upgrading computers to keep them running quickly while they keep joining more and more botnets.

A Windows user "toiling away…endlessly patching and running antivirus software" was the life I lived the last time I used Windows. I couldn't keep windows stable on Georgia Tech's network in my first year. I switched to linux and was happy for years with no issues until I wanted to run Live. I tried going back to Windows and bought an Apple within a few months. I couldn't deal with it anymore.

Since then, I have't had nearly as many issues, and when I do have them…they get fixed. The same was not true with Windows and Dell or IBM. That's all there is to it for me.

I will continue to use Apple computers in much the same way I've always used them - when the software I'm running works better (or is only available) in that environment, or if I'm developing for that platform. I'm all for using the proper tool for the job. But for personal use, I have no need for Apple computers. And I don't see this changing as long as they keep choosing style over substance.

Warning: joke ahead.

What does Microsoft choose over Substance?

(end joke)

In short:

You choose windows because you want a system that can run (I assume) Pro Tools and Traktor (and probably a few other things) and don't see/get any benefit from OS X.

I choose OS X because I want a unix-like system that will run Ableton Live and photo organization and editing software that doesn't suck (shotwell, gimp, and adobe lightroom all suck).

Would I switch if Ableton Live, Aperture (or actual competition for it), and Photoshop (or actual compeition for it) were available for Linux? Probably. Would I switch to Windows for anything? No.

[Ross]

For god sake... Why not try a Hackintosh, see if you like it. If so, go and buy a proper mac. If not, stick with Windows. Try and ignore these debates (pointless arguements) and do what's best for you after you've tried both.

[mostapha]

but these arguments are fun.

[nem0nic]

The problem with stupid people is that they don't know they're stupid. Forcing them to learn something other than unscrew and shove…is a good thing.

How you can believe this and still buy into Apple's walled garden is beyond my understanding.

Get it through your head that they actually do things at Apple Stores and that a year of service comes free with the computer just like everyone else.

I guess my past experience has colored my opinion as much as your past has colored yours. I've NEVER had an experience at the Genius Bar that was anything but annoying and unproductive.

Mostly to prove a point, I took my computer to an Apple store today. At around 2pm, I signed up for an appointment at 4:30. I got there at 4:10 and because no one had signed up for the slot before me, they started helping me at 4:12. By 4:25, my computer was back in my possession.

It took you 2 1/2 hours, an internet session, and a car ride to clean your keyboard? that sounds like a setup to a good joke.

Sorry, I'd rather go somewhere than have someone come to my home

I would rather have the problem resolved without having an impact on my schedule. The less downtime the better.

That's not the image I have of Windows users. The image I have of windows users (more so of anyone who runs a wireless AP with SSID="linksys") is people constantly upgrading computers to keep them running quickly while they keep joining more and more botnets.

One has nothing to do with another. First of all, broadcasting a default SSID doesn't necessarily mean that the user hasn't secured their AP. And no matter the case, the state of their AP has nothing to do with botnets. We don't live in the matrix, and there aren't wardriving robots running around looking or unsecured APs with default passwords.

A Windows user "toiling away…endlessly patching and running antivirus software" was the life I lived the last time I used Windows. I couldn't keep windows stable on Georgia Tech's network in my first year. I switched to linux and was happy for years with no issues until I wanted to run Live. I tried going back to Windows and bought an Apple within a few months. I couldn't deal with it anymore.

No offense, but you were a college kid doing typical college kid things with other college kids on a college kid network. If you had spent a small amount of time employing the security measures you now take as gospel, you would have had a better experience. You WERE the clueless user you said earlier needs to have a bit more learning.

I keep multiple Windows computers running online 24/7. They all run servers of some sort, but one of them runs several that interacts with both the other computers on my network, as well as remote servers. There is a trust relationship between this computer and the others on my network (which SHOULD work against me - if the big bad interwebz were as dangerous as you make it seem). That said, that computer has NEVER gotten a virus, malware, or any other kind of issue. I run a single AV/security package, which updates itself, runs scans on a schedule, and doesn't bog me down. I don't run as admin. I let Windows download and notify me of patches (I reboot it if needed when I know it's OK to). Otherwise, that's the extent of my toiling. I DO control my own mail server, and have some pretty draconian rules. But I might need to interact with the filtering once a month or two. What this buys me is the ability to put my email address "out there" and not worry about spam or hostile attachments, but it's not rocket science, and I've been doing it for years.

What does Microsoft choose over Substance?

They CHOOSE substance. I use Windows because I work for a living. I can not afford downtime. It's been my professional experience that the computing markets Apple has FAILED to penetrate are the ones requiring uptime and absolute reliability. No one's using XServe (that's why it's now dead). When the industry demands reliability, the apps are running in Windows or a *nix variant. If you're in a professional recording studio, chances are you'll run into an older Mac running an older version of ProTools. But recording doesn't require 100% uptime. But the software that handles the radio station playback automation DOES, and it's running in Windows. You'll find Apple computers in the graphics department of a TV network, but only in creation. The systems that deliver those stills to air are running Windows. The switcher that cuts to that graphic is running Windows. The servers from which the video gets played back, and the computers running Newscutter are all Windows computers. You'll find the same kind of results when looking at other industries where uptime and reliability are important (from healthcare to traffic management to web servers). If OSX is so clearly superior, why did Apple just give up on their servers? Why isn't anyone using them?

Style over substance.

[bartboy]

Ok seeing as everyone wants to turn this into some kind of thing that it is not and not offer any advice at all can one of the moderators just close this thread I really feel it is doing way more harm than good to the DJTT community as a whole.

I understand it's a polarizing topic but seriously some of this shit is just getting ugly when all the OP asked for was advice. Not your horror stories about how it took you 12 hours to fix some problem. Problems happen with every computer no matter how well you treat it and how careful you are they are made to break plain and simple.

Please can everyone just drop it and all the mean spirited mudslinging back and forth.