The Traktor F1 & 2.5 Thread

[oliosky]

No

sweet. thanks

[keeb]

Yep. NI is really good at hyping and marketing features most people don't need that will probably hinder them more than anything, and basically if you want to use the shiny new remix decks you need an F1, and they will make a lot of money which I have no problem with. I can't wait to see the F1 routines people start posting on youtube for some hilarity though.

I mean, I do agree about their hype of features. I'll also say that I don't use sample decks; I've been thinking about it but they provide little benefit for the effort of remapping my x1's midi side. However, I think that the reason I've been finding them less useful for my sets is that I'm spinning mostly Electro and Prog house. When most of my tracks are around 3:30 in length, I'm manually beatmatching, often cutting out part or all of the intros, and I'm doing decently long blends over fader slams while working in effects as well... It makes me think I'd have to become part octopus to start using sample decks on top of that. That being said, I've gotten more into Deep house and Techno recently which tend to have much longer tracks with slower progression; I suspect I could start working in the sample decks more easily with these genres.

[Deejaesnafu]

woohoo

[Archies'bald]

I can't wait to see the F1 routines people start posting on youtube for some hilarity though.

Either that it will depress me to the point of suicide.

I suspect there will be a new argument about whether preparing your tracks and using the sync button is more skilful than pushing buttons on a sample library.

[oliosky]

Haters hate. Whiners whine. Like all incarnations of DJing, there will be good and bad operators of the F1, just like there are a whole bunch of "keeping it real man" vinyl only djs who can't select or mix a decent tune to save their lives.

That being said, the prep time that would be needed to properly use the new sample deck features really is a bit prohibitive. But hey, the whole routine thing doesn't really give me a rager so my opinion doesn't really matter.

[Karlos Santos]

First, I don't think people want bundled software. I think people want free software. In addition to what I'm about to get into, I could see the inclusion of Traktor with hardware in the future as another anti-piracy measure by NI since it's worked pretty well for Serato.
Disclaimer: I already own TSP2, this is not a bitter-pirate rant.

So, everyone can download Traktor off the NI site as of May 30 for free? I ask not to be a dick, but to point out that what you're saying is *slightly* off. Traktor isn't free, and I doubt NI will make it legitimately free. Even with the F1, you're still going to have a license key to install Traktor; it will not be Serato. I doubt NI will make it hardware-handshake similar to Serato (and thank God for that).

Currently it costs the consumer around $200 for a license; if NI isn't giving away these licenses for free, presumably it costs NI some money to produce them (if nothing else in terms of research and development, support staff, etc.). Therefore, NI must charge something in order to make a profit from the TP2 licenses. By including TP2 with the F1, it's pretty fair to assume that NI are trying to regain some of the cost of the license within the cost of the F1. Since there isn't a "license-included" and a "license-not included" version, it's hard to say with certainty; but, I have no doubt that the license factored into the price of the S4 and the S2 at least (before the sale, anyway; now I'd say they're giving it away with the S2). Now even if cost of production for a license is say, $30, NI just like any other profit-seeking company will add a bit extra onto that. I know literally nothing about the production of the F1, but in terms of number of components (encoders, buttons, etc.) it's pretty damn close to the X1. I doubt cost of manufacture is significantly higher on the F1 than the X1 because of that (sure there's the screen, bigger buttons and the added LEDs, but still).

It makes sense from a business perspective for NI to do this too. How do you tap into your already saturated market segment? Make them pay for the software they already own again if they want your new hardware. Why wouldn't NI do so? It's still our choice whether or not to buy the F1, so complaining about getting "free" software alongside it just makes us look bad. Still, let's not pretend that NI has suddenly had a fit of altruism as far as giving away software is concerned; I have no doubt that TP2.5 is included with the F1 as an excuse for its rather inflated price point. I mean, you're talking almost $300 for basically an X1. Would you pay $300 for an X1? I wouldn't. "But Traktor's included!" Yeah, I already have a spare license kicking about because in selling it I'd lose over half of its value. Now with the introduction of the F1, the market is going to be even more flooded with TP2 keys which will drive down the asking price of a license even further. All said and done, in buying an F1 we're buying a $200 piece of hardware with an $80 license bundled in, and at best we can recoup $50 of that license by the time the market gets flooded with them (i.e. immediately because probably 80% of the initial F1 buyers are going to be Traktor owners already). It makes business sense and I don't blame NI for it one bit. Just don't make it seem like a bonus because it most certainly is not.

Aside from profit, I wouldn't be surprised if TP2.5 is included because the F1 doesn't play well with other software. Without NHL it's probably a far less impressive controller, and the bundle could easily be to sway people over to using Traktor with it instead of trying it with say, SSL, and having poor results.

In short, yes its free.

I didnt say people can download Traktor from the site dude. Not at all. The comparison with SSL is not meant like that.
It comes bundled with hardware. I made that pretty clear. In fact you have twisted my words completely. i dont know why you would assume Traktor will be a free download on the website. I stated 'with the F1"
Its also a free upgrade for existing owners.

Did Traktor have any development so that the X1 could work, the answer is NO. The X1 was made to fit Traktor.
T2.5 and the F1 have been made in tandem so comparing the X1 and the F1 is not helpful. Although remember 2.5 is not 3. Its not a complete departure. Most of the work was done in TP2.


I dont understand what your saying about the license. Maybe NI have factored the price of software into the hardware but what everyone needs to understand is that whilst a LOT of people have been complaining about the way NI do things and their software business model over the past few years NI themselves have been moving on an getting on with stuff and doing things differently, people just havent bothered to notice. How many times has Traktor been FREE in recent times when bundled with hardware.

The development of Traktor is gradual. They can afford to give it away for nothing as long as they sell hardware. Hardware is where the money is and Im willing to bet that by the end of this year this sentence will hold a LOT more weight than it does now when all we are discussing is just the F1.

Its highly plausible that Traktor will still cost £200 but will be free with any hardware £200 and over. Thus making it FREE with a hardware purchase. This is my hunch anyway.

The F1 is not an inflated X1. The technology is far superior. The pads alone make it more like Maschine hardware which you would not compare to an X1.
People need to get the X1 right out of their heads when they talk about the F1. Its chalk and cheese, the only similarities are they are both black and plastic.

[JDFS]

I think this just will fit me.

First of all, with the faders on the F1, it is possible to use the Audio 4 for 4 decks; 2 track decks and 2 Remix decks, and just play with the filters or something for EQ'ing.

I only play long, boring, dull, deep techno a la Chris Liebing/Speedy J/Audio Injection etc. and I'm using 4 decks now, where I'm mostly looping deck 3 and 4 and use track deck 1 and 2 for the tracks. But in deck 3 and 4 I mostly take some parts with percussions, hi hats etc. and it's just interesting to use sample decks for that! More music, more loops, more power... So the X1 for deck 1 and 2 and the F1 for deck 3 and 4. And you can also switch deck 3 and 4 to track mode and use the Track deck overlay from the F1.

Personally, I think it's gold! Although, it's a bit of shame that NI didn't include something like the X-LINK from A&H... When I have the F1 and the X1, there's still 1 USB port for the Audio 4/6/8/10 needed. Well, USB Hub is the movement there! And the free upgrade was expected, at least from my part.

[alexfells]

I think the new remix decks are a good thing. There going to give people more with traktor and its a great half way for people who sync traktor and ableton. Also I think it'll be a good way for ableton djs who have been wanting more flexability with live to convert.
I would love to get this working with an apc.

[geminimech]

I have TP2.

I will be able to upgrade to 2.5 for free.

If I buy an F1, I'm sure I will pay a nominal fee for another license that is included in the cost of the controller. If I don't buy an F1, I still got 2.5 for free.

I understand your explanation keeb, but you left out those of us who won't buy an F1 (this guy), and still get the software. Unless I'm dense and missed something.

[photojojo]

I only play long, boring, dull, deep techno a la Chris Liebing/Speedy J/Audio Injection etc. and I'm using 4 decks now, where I'm mostly looping deck 3 and 4 and use track deck 1 and 2 for the tracks. But in deck 3 and 4 I mostly take some parts with percussions, hi hats etc. and it's just interesting to use sample decks for that!

I play stuff along the same lines, sample decks are where it's at buddy.

Are you using a mixer? I don't see one in your sig so I'm assuming not. What you describe above you could do definitely do. I'm thinking a K2 and two F1's might just be the ticket for a complete setup.