Does using a controller not make you a dj?

[fullenglishpint]

From a purely practical standpoint, knowing how to beat match by ear can get you out of some sticky situations.

Apart from that, there's no need to learn how to DJ with vinyl or whatever if you don't want to.

[DJSigma]

I understand Sigma's point because I know what its like to DJ on turntables, I know whats its like to get a new record, drop the needle, hear the faint crackle before the songs plays. Its a different feeling than getting an mp3 which can be 1 out of 50 I just downloaded, playing it for a few seconds and then on to the next 1. But for someone new who will never know that, never have anything to compare it to will not be a better DJ because they learned the old fashion way to beatmatch.

My point has nothing to do with vinyl though man, as I said here when talking about learning to beatmatch manually: -

It can be done on turntables, but you can do it with the very latest CD decks and controllers too.

And.....

I'm certainly not saying that DJs have to go out and buy a pair of 1200s and a few crates of vinyl.

If you and another DJ are equal in all areas, except he can beatmatch manually and you can't, then he is more skilled than you and is therefore better and more versatile than you are - it's that simple.

[zimfella]

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[O.D.]

How would learning the old fashion way connect you to the music more and why would it? Its like saying watching tv on an old 13" tv will connect you more to the tv show than watching it on a new flat screen. The show is still the same show. The music is the same, the song doesn't magically become a better song because you are manipulating a 12" platter rather than a jog wheel or hitting a button. Djing is about THE MUSIC not about the tools you use.

I disagree with this.

I didn't come from a vinyl background, but I did learn to beat match manually on CDJs about 6 years ago. About a year and a half ago I bought the S4 which I still own and use today, and started playing out with just that. Since there was a big sync button right in front of me, naturally, I used it. I figured that it freed up a bit of time to focus on finding that next perfect track so that's what I did. Eventually, I became somewhat disconnected to the groove and just ended using up a lot of time looking at my laptop, hunting for the next track. So I decided to go back to using my CDJs with time code, turned off sync, turned off the phase meters, and placed my laptop to the side so it wasn't right in front of me. I couldn't be happier. For me at least, manually beat matching most definitely helps connect me to the groove. I dance more now when djing. I pulse and bob to the groove and when I'm playing out, my sets are more spontaneous, even with my track selection 'cause I'm not searching for the next "perfect" track all the time. Now I understand that some may be able to do the same if your auto syncing, but for me at least, doing it manually just kinda forces my body to move to the beat because I'm physically connecting myself with my ears.

[DJSigma]

How would learning the old fashion way connect you to the music more and why would it? Its like saying watching tv on an old 13" tv will connect you more to the tv show than watching it on a new flat screen.

It's not, because you're just sitting and watching either way in that example - what you do is no different whether it's a 13" TV or a whopping great plasma screen. In fact, that argument shows that equipment does matter, because you feel more connected - more immersed in the movie - when you watch one on a big 50" plasma in HD with surround sound compared to watching it on a 13" black and white portable with mono sound. But that's solely about the equipment because watching a movie is a passive activity. DJing is not (not yet anyway, lol).

The more automated something becomes, the less connected to that activity you are, until you are no longer connected at all. Sometimes automation replaces something that is solely a chore - a TV remote control for example, as I doubt anyone actually enjoys getting up every time they want to switch channels - but with DJing, it is different for many people (see the guy's post above, for example).

Let's say it got to the stage where you just click on tracks and the software does everything - beatmatching, levels, phrase matching, mixing, EQing - so you're just the equivalent of a jukebox standing there. Is it still "only about the music"? You don't feel more disconnected from what you're doing compared to how you DJ now? You wouldn't find that a dull way to DJ?

Djing is about THE MUSIC not about the tools you use.

It's about both, otherwise we'd all be using whatever is the cheapest piece of gear available that enables us to play "THE MUSIC". In fact, every DJ equipment company would have gone bust apart from 1, cos there'd be no point having all this different gear. It's only about "THE MUSIC", so we don't need it - we'll all use the same thing, cos it doesn't matter at all right?

@zimfella - Whoever made that image really doesn't understand this debate at all.

[haze324]

What Sigma said

[dj matt blaze]

Even when using sync there is more to beatmatching than just hitting the button. There is also dropping it on the right phrase and the right beat. It doesn't take a musical genius to hear a train wreck and I don't get why people make such a big deal about manually beatmatching. I used to time all my records with an electronic metronome so I knew the tempo of every record and my records were in BPM order so I knew if the BPM was 120 and my next record was 121 BPM, I lowered the pitch down to 120 to match and wha la, beatmatched, not very hard. Sometimes it took a little longer to get it just right which is why in this day and age I just hit sync. I never pre plan sets, as soon as I drop a track I am looking for the next 1 and once I find it I set up an 8 beat loop, hit sync and see how it sounds in my phones. Ifii like it I can use the visual of the wave to know when the drop is and now the new skill is to be able to read the wave ahead of time so I can start my incoming track at a point so the drop of my incoming track happens right when the outgoing track has its drop off or I can echo out. You can set markers to know 32 beats from now is the drop so start your track NOW. This is the beauty of technology and using it to your advantage instead of being stuck in the past and trying to learn to manually beatmatch with a record. DJing has advanced well beyond that. Its only the DJs that are all about turntables that can't grasp that its about the MUSIC and DJs like me were thinking about this 20 years ago when I had to manually drop a Janet Jackson sample of her scream every 8 beats. Drop the sample spin the record back, drop it again, spin the record back, drop it again......

[DJSigma]

Even when using sync there is more to beatmatching than just hitting the button. There is also dropping it on the right phrase and the right beat.

That's phrase matching though. Beatmatching is getting the 2 tracks to the same tempo.

This is the beauty of technology and using it to your advantage instead of being stuck in the past and trying to learn to manually beatmatch with a record.

Do you actually read my posts before responding? It doesn't seem to be the case, as nobody is talking about using records.

Its only the DJs that are all about turntables that can't grasp that its about the MUSIC

Again, it's nothing to do with turntables specifically and I addressed your "all about the MUSIC" nonsense above. If it really was ALL about the music, we'd all be DJing with nice, convenient little iPods. The music is the most important thing - I would agree with that 100% - but to say it's ALL about the music is to misunderstand DJing I'm afraid.

If you skip learning beatmatching - and I'm not saying that once you've learned how to do it well, that you have to continue to do it manually forever and ever - then you're not a well-rounded DJ. You're the kid that can't add-up when I take his calculator away.

[haze324]

While I truly appreciate the convenience of controllers and I use them and have fun.....but the whole thing of dropping a sample and having to spin back the record. I truly enjoy that MUCH more than just pressing a button over and over.

I think the idea counting bars, baby scratching a track and dropping it on the one, then matching the beats is that if you know how to do that you can play on ANY piece of gear and that becomes a lost art when some one just grabs a controller and presses a few buttons and calls themselves a DJ.

[dj matt blaze]

Let's say it got to the stage where you just click on tracks and the software does everything - beatmatching, levels, phrase matching, mixing, EQing - so you're just the equivalent of a jukebox standing there. Is it still "only about the music"? You don't feel more disconnected from what you're doing compared to how you DJ now? You wouldn't find that a dull way to DJ?

Ther are a lot of musicians who think that now. DJing is just pushing buttons. We know thats not true. Is it a Dull way to dj? It is but it is still DJing and what many DJs still do.

Djing is about THE MUSIC not about the tools you use.

It's about both, otherwise we'd all be using whatever is the cheapest piece of gear available that enables us to play "THE MUSIC". In fact, every DJ equipment company would have gone bust apart from 1, cos there'd be no point having all this different gear. It's only about "THE MUSIC", so we don't need it - we'll all use the same thing, cos it doesn't matter at all right?

I disagree. Its not about both. Its about the music, its about the song selection, its about how you manipulate the music and what you do to it and what comes out of the speakers. That is all that matters. The tools and how you achieve what you hear don't matter. NO one but other DJs care about what another DJ uses. The crowd at the club cares about the music, the songs, they would have no idea if the DJ was using a mixtrack or a Xone 4D.

You are taking what I said about it being all about the music out of context. I am talking about from the crowds perspective because in the end, they decide if you were successful. The crowd cares about what they hear, they don't care about how a DJ achieves that.

There is a point to different gear, personal preference and budget.