Internal vs External mixing

[zimfella]

do you think we should have an internal setup picture thread and external setup picture thread? then when you want to see those kinds of setups just go to that particular thread?

[djproben]

External mixing is bound to die one day... mark my words... external mixing days are limited

Not until there are DJ tools that do internal right, and I don't mean Ableton. Ableton is the only DJ-related software that actually takes advantage of the benefits of internal mixing by giving the user full control over shaping the sound. Unfortunately for those of us coming from the decks-world, where the models is two to four decks and a mixer, the software is simply lacking in this department. EQ options on Traktor are all weak. They're ok but extremely limited -- no isolation, four basic choices and that's it. And those four choices are loosely modeled on copying hardware. Internal mixing is theoretically a lot better, but there's not a lot of software that really takes advantage of those advantages. Ableton + plugins is definitely the way to go if you want to do this (lookup the "smart mixing" essays from a couple years ago if you want to see some fascinating possibilities that are simply not an option with hardware mixers) but that's a workflow that doesn't work for most DJs (including myself). I love Ableton in theory but in practice I never bother with it.

[MrPopinjay]

I hear that proben.

Though wasn't bento the guy who did all the "smart mixing" stuff? :P

[djproben]

hahaha you're probably right lol, so I guess he knows about it

[mostapha]

Smart mixing still really seems stupid to me. I just don't understand why you'd want to do it that way.

[MrPopinjay]

I couldn't wrap my head around it really. Anyone care to give a simple explanation?

[djproben]

The basic idea is you are punching holes in different parts of the sound of one song to make space for the incoming song. Kind of like super fine-tuned EQing but having it done auto-mathematically rather than adjusting only one of 3 or 4 frequency bands on the fly.

[mostapha]

Except that you still have to set the frequencies ahead of time (or map controls to your crossover frequencies). Basically…it uses sidechained compressors instead of EQ knobs. I can't figure out why you'd want to do that except to–for example–bring back in track A's bass when track B has focus and it's bass drops out.

Plus…you've also got to make sure your attack and release times are sane…otherwise it just sounds wrong and adds a lot of messed up distortion/noise.

It's kind of like the opposite of super fine-tuned EQing.

It also limits you to 2 decks because the routing just doesn't work with anything more complicated.

And it doesn't work as well as just using EQs and having a multi-band compressor on your master to turn things back up if–like in the example above–your bass would drop out………or you could just know your tracks.

Maybe I'm not the best person to be discussing it, though. I did set it up and listen to it, and hated it……but I also don't mix with EQs anymore.

[djproben]

Maybe I'm not the best person to be discussing it, though. I did set it up and listen to it, and hated it……but I also don't mix with EQs anymore.

Hehe well it sounds like you understand it a lot more than I do so I'll take your word for it. I tried to set it up and got as far as not being able to reliably route traktor's output through Ableton in the first place, and then I got interested in other things....

[Sn0wday]

That looks beautiful.

The NI sound cards are the same as the ones in the S2, they will have the same quality audio. Running it then through a mixer will only lower the sound quality further, though it may be negligible or it may colour it to your tastes.

Using an external mixer won't ever increase your sound quality.

...And people weren't just debating this for the last few pages...?

Basically all I want to know is, is it seriously compromising to internally mix in compared to external because reading through this entire thread really makes one think so.