ableton djs--what soundcard do you use?

[mi3s]

I'm using at my ableton live setup the m-audio profire 610 and i haven't any problems.

[Zac Kyoti]

Thing is, if you're doing it right and never driving your final output (meaning what's leaving your laptop and going to the soundcard) past 0db, you may always have the issue of sounding quiet next to a piece of analog gear that can push things comfortably past 0db. It's a drawback to being all digital.
Possible solutions: 1) Plug your soundcard into an analog hardware channel and bump it.
2) Keep the output to your soundcard limited below 0db, then turn your soundcard to absolute maximum, since you'll never be sending it an overloaded signal, you're safe getting every last bit of juice out of it. 3) Have the club turn it up at the submixer or amps. 4) Up the perceived volume level on the master channel with exciters/maximizers/ and/or (not necessarily recommended) compressors.

My signal chain goes Traktor -5db to Ableton, channels processed w/a third party maximizer, very light compression on the master, limited to -0.10db, sent to the AK1, turned up to maximum, then on to the amps. Generally I don't need to turn it up much next to anyone else...

Using all four methods usually produces good results.

[charo]

actually there are different db output levels depending on device, for example in cdjs there is a difference between consumer level output (-6db i believe) and professional level at i believe at -4db.
Compare say the dj/io output level and the firebox level and you will find compariable differences.
It's not a limit of digital audio.

[Zac Kyoti]

actually there are different db output levels depending on device, for example in cdjs there is a difference between consumer level output (-6db i believe) and professional level at i believe at -4db.
Compare say the dj/io output level and the firebox level and you will find compariable differences.
It's not a limit of digital audio.

I'm talking about the signal sent to the digital to analog conversion stage (your soundcard). You do not want to drive that signal past 0db, ever. What you are talking about is the actual analog output of a soundcard/cdjs/mixer etc, which of course is different depending on the unit.

It's not a limit per-se, to feed your soundcard levels above 0db, but you impose it on yourself unless you truly enjoy the lovely sounds of digital distortion.

[n2hf1st]

consumer level equipment is -10 dBv, pro audio line level is 4dBu.

iirc most popular djing soundcards can output higher than 4dBu when maxed out - audio 8 can hit something around 9 dBu, and a firebox will certainly get just as loud.

compressing or limiting what is already professionally mastered music just sounds like a bad idea to me. just pay close attention to your gain stages and there really shouldn't be a problem.

[n2hf1st]

to reinforce what zac was saying, digital audio is limited to 0dBfs, anything louder and it will clip very audibly. certainly you want to get it close as possible with some kind of limiter to prevent overloading, but deliberately squashing it will just make it sound bad.

sounds to me like it was a problem with the sound guy you were working with. if you're giving them a solid signal, that's all you can really do because they're ultimately in charge of the amps. trying to boost it through compression won't make it noticably louder, just noticeably over compressed

[Zac Kyoti]

Yeah, I completely agree. ya gotta be very careful about compression on already mastered music. The compressor I use on my master channel is very, very light and I only use it to gel the mix a bit, impart a uniform quality to the sound. I turn it off if there's any kind of compression unit in a venue's rack. As for the limiting, I attenuate the signal by 3db before it even goes to the limiter, so it hardly ever engages, only during the loudest transient peaks of really dense mixing. Insurance basically. My channel strip maximizers are definely NOT compressors, the vst I use basically just fixes phase relationships, giving the sound more clarity and punch without compression.

But as n2hf1st said: Your various gain stages are the most important parts of the signal chain. I would concentrate on getting clean, hot levels through every step, before playing with extra tools/vst/outboard processing.

[charo]

sounds to me like it was a problem with the sound guy you were working with. if you're giving them a solid signal, that's all you can really do because they're ultimately in charge of the amps. trying to boost it through compression won't make it noticably louder, just noticeably over compressed

that's what i see as the issue as well. if more volume was needed the audio should have been turned up on whatever the audiocard was plugged into, the amp or the mixer channel.

n2hf1st also had the db levels right for consumer vs pro.

my point which wasn't that clear, was that when people are trying to compare for example the output level of cdjs vs their soundcard/digital audio, it could be more then just the limits of digital audio (don't push past 0Db ever) but it could also that the soundcard itself just doesn't put out a loud signal.

[Zac Kyoti]

Word. Some gear just ain't that loud.