If you were waiting for a reason to get Live 8 and Max for live, here it is

[Abyrne7]

I cant really see this being groundbreaking really. If you can't tell what sounds good by your own ears then more often then not other aspects of your production would sound bad wouldnt it?

[mostapha]

I actually like these responses. Interesting.

But, idk…there's a difference between "i'm not a good player, so I use quantize and edit things," and what he seemed to be saying, "i want to learn to play music without learning to play an instrument." That sounds dumb to me, especially when Live has pretty good midi authoring. If he can read a grid, he can make music in Live without ever touching an instrument. If he can write sheet music and spends a bit more money, he can go that route too.

If he wants to play a keyboard live, he should probably go to a yamaha school for a couple weeks.

The patch seems like auto-tune for keyboardists, which is funny 'cuz Live already had Scale and Chord devices to do something similar.

Scale sits between a midi input and a synth and forces you to play a specific scale by modifying what the keys do. For example, if you only wanted to play a pentatonic scale, you could make the first 5 white keys play the notes of 1 octave of the pentatonic and the rest don't do anything (in case you bump them).

Chord sits in the same place and turns a single note into a chord, so–for example–you could play G C D over and over again while it uses dummy clips to turn it into the chords that have made up most of rock since it started.

[Nephew]

But there's also the networking aspect of the patch, where it can send that information to other laptops, and it will correct a key input if hit a wrong note, instead of not playing anything.

I understand Ableton has those plugins,but this one combines them in a more user friendly and intuitive way, plus you don't need to understand music to use this patch, unlike the other two where you need to have some understanding to realize what you're getting out of them.

[mostapha]

you don't need to understand music to use this patch, unlike the other two where you need to have some understanding to realize what you're getting out of them.

That's actually the sole reason I hate the new one.

[Nephew]

That's kind of like you saying you hate a painter or writer because they've never had any formal training, and yet they are capable of creating amazing works of art.

None of these guys are claiming to be world class pianists, all they want to do is create music for people move and groove too. Where's the hard in that really? And if there's a tool that allows them to accomplish their vision then they'd be a fool not use it.

[mostapha]

That's kind of like you saying you hate a painter or writer because they've never had any formal training, and yet they are capable of creating amazing works of art.

None of these guys are claiming to be world class pianists, all they want to do is create music for people move and groove too. Where's the hard in that really? And if there's a tool that allows them to accomplish their vision then they'd be a fool not use it.

If they're capable of creating amazing works of art, either they've had some kind of training or they're a prodigy.

In the music world…if you can entertain people either you've had some kind of training or you're a prodigy.

The visual art analogy to this plugin isn't someone who accidentally makes a masterpiece…the proper analogy is a canvas that forces you to balance your composition, forces you to use deep structure tropes, forces you to choose appropriate colors, and modifies what you're actually making the brush do when you're going to violate one of the rules.

Besides…if you can hear music in your head, the fingering technique you'd need to play it on a sequencer takes almost no time to learn.

[tpsowden]

i think its great.. in a way he is being creative and musical by improving his instrument! and in dance music its all about work flow.. the quicker you get your IDEA down.. the better it usually sounds in the end! its all good to have trained fingers.. but i am sure his ears are much more in tune with things, and thats what counts!

you can say the same about digital dj'in and beat grids compared to vinyl or cdj's and beat matching yourself... you got more time and freedom to be creative.. i think some peoiple gotta relax sometimes haha

[mostapha]

There's nothing creative about beat matching.

There is something creative about learning scales and learning when you should ignore them…when to use the notes that aren't there.

You'll never figure that out if you're using a plugin to do your theory for you.

[tpsowden]

you can apply what you jsut said about scales to beat matching and phasing... especialy with vinyl.. if its out of key most of the time it'll sound like shit.. jsut like if you use the wrong keys it'll sound like shit...

[EYENSEE]

There is something creative about learning scales and learning when you should ignore them…when to use the notes that aren't there.

You'll never figure that out if you're using a plugin to do your theory for you.

first off, i'm all for people learning music theory...why not? more knowledge, more power to you..

you do have an interesting point...

...but lets flip the analogy.... think about people that use drum machines vs people that use real drums.

with a drum machine, you're using your two hands... while a real drummer uses his feet as well.

the real drummer can say... "but you'll never understand how it feels to hit a snare with a real drum stick...yadda yadda yadda.."

i dont think the audience and listeners would care much in the end, if the song was made on a drum machine or a real set of drums as long as the song/beat sounds good.

or simply put... "in the end...as long as the beat/song sounds good, what does it matter if a patch was used?..."

thats like someone going up to all the people that produce using computers and saying... "you aint a real musician.. you're using computers to do all your work, go pick up a real guitar and play it"

i did play the guitar.......using my midi keyboard... :P

my2cents..


just make music.............. and make it sound good.