Old Skool mixing Vs The use of tech

[MFilthy]

Started 10 years ago on vinyl. Got out of it because the scene was boring me to death, every DJ played the same shit...Sure you had some innovators here and there, but they were few and far between. Sold my stuff, bought a better bass rig, joined a math metal band, toured the country for 6 years. Came back, started another band, toured some more. a couple years ago a friend introduced me to dubstep (I know I know...everyone hates dubstep insert "blah blah blah"), I bought some digital gear and started mixing again (mostly my own stuff, and some of the harder stuff I could find). Now for my first rant... When I first started back I never used the sync button..I didn't understand it lol..I though whats the point? I have a pitch fader right here...However, once I set it to sync BPM only I figured out a myriad of possibilites for using it. I could mix into a song and start a mashup within 10 seconds instead of mixing in, crossfade, stop the original deck, load new track, find my spot, pitch fade to a close BPM, wait for a new measure, and then drop the track. I started using it a little...Maybe twice in a 1 hour set would I have to hit the button. I've never messed with the quantize and whatever other features you can sync...it's just not for me. Part of the fun is keeping as much manual as possible. I agree that learning the basics is a must...but I'm glad the tool is there if I need it in a pinch. I know theres a lot of beef against controller DJ's ( I consider myself more of a controllerist), and there's big beef with the explosion of dubstep/"brostep". But ask yourself this...how big was the crown you were playing to 4 years ago? How big is it now? There are some house DJ's in my area that are constantly bitching about dubstep and all the people that come out to hear the dubep DJ's...however they should be thanking the dub DJ's because those kids may come for the dubstep, but they listen and dance for the house DJ's as well...

I know this got a little off topic but, damnit, support your scene!! I come from a few different music scenes and this kind of infighting kills a scene faster than you can blink...8 years ago the metal scene was booming...it was nothing for us to play infront of 600-1000 kids on a saturday, in a medium sized town, with no big headliner! Now I can go to a show in a major city, with 2-3 big regional bands and be surprised if they're 100 kids there...

something to think about..../end rant.

[mostapha]

That seems all well and good, but I'm just not that into My Little Ponies: Friendship is Magic.

[lethal_pizzle]

Unfortunately the only people who think DJing is a "scene"... are DJs. Everyone else thinks the scene is about the music being played and the people who go to them... and they're right.

[sobi]

It is and always has been about the music. The only people that care about what the DJ uses and how are other DJs. Crowd doesn't care, they only care about what they hear. Club owner only cares about keeping people in the club to sell more booze and make more money, bottom line. I started in the 80's too blah blah blah, I made mixes on a dual cassette deck blah blah blah, no one cares. Its 2012, the technology is there, accept that and get on with it. While you are counting bars and maunually beatmatching that 1 song, I have already mixed 4 songs, 3 loops, effects, samples and still had time to eat my cheeseburger and the crowd is loving it. All the moaning and groaning isn't going to change that. Up your performance and give them a reason to pay you more than the last guy. Use the technology to your advantage instead of whining about it. Do something different and innovative instead of moaning that thing you have done for 25 years has now become automated and easy, rise above it.

and yet another proponent of technology completely misses the point of a valid gripe.

[ToOntown]

Bottomline, I think I speak for most of the old school DJs, its not the sync button that bugs me. It is the proliferation of dumbass DJs.

This man couldn't be more on point. You nailed it, bud. It makes me really sad and scared about where our craft will end be in a few years time. These kids don't get what they're doing. Not even a little bit. I've recently had kids come to me for lessons and I've decided to teach them the old school way. I'm in the market for TTs again just for this reason.

[dj matt blaze]

Call me crazy, but I prefer simple mixing with very minimal effects and looping, and would even go as far to say that having an effects list a mile long, and 4 units chained with 55 cue points to juggle 9 times out of 10 sounds like crap. It's not innovative, it's crap. Don't read that as, I think anyone who does it sucks, and they shouldn't quit their dayjobs, just that IN MY OPINION, it tends to sound cluttered and is generally unnecessary. So I'll disagree with your argument about mixing '4 songs, 3 loops, effects, samples and still had time to eat my cheeseburger' theory, because guys like Three still uses two CDJ's and manually beatmatches, and he'll take a poo on anything you've mixed. Ever. Because in the end it's about the music right? So don't shoot your own argument against manually beatmatching in the foot, and just say that the argument is dated and not needed to be beaten to death anymore. New and Simple != Better. Use what you want, the way you want and as you said use the technology to your advantage.

Facts are proven. Opinion is an individuals outlook. Fact: Technology is here to stay and will make it easier to do things that were done differently years ago. Example: microwaves, computers, Cars that parrallel park for you. Opinions can differ and are objective. It is YOUR opinion that multiple effects and loops sound like crap and isn't innovative. In some cases yes, it does sound like crap. When used correctly it can sound awesome, its isn't a proven fact that ALL OF IT ALL THE TIME is crap. The thing that bothers me the most are the snobby condescending DJs who decided that they made the rules and their way is right. You compare me to "Three" whoever that is, I don't compare myself or anyone to anyone else because frankly it doesn't matter or do I care. My point was that alot more can be done with new technology than the old way of "2 turntables and a microphone" A DJ could still suck and sound like crap with simple mixing or sound awesome, just like multiple loops and effects and samples can sound like crap OR can sound awesome. But to whine about sync and manually beatmatching sounds like a bitter old DJ that can't accept technology. This old "you have to learn the basics" arguement was vaild in 1990 because in 1990 that was the basics, well now its not the basics anymore because the technology has moved it away from that. So its not fair to say to a new DJ, you must learn to beatmatch manually because we are in a different time and there are options. Do what you wanna do but don't knock someone in this day and age for using a controller and sync because as I have said before if autosync existed in 1985, it would have been used. Its about the music and the final outcome.

and yet another proponent of technology completely misses the point of a valid gripe.

I have missed nothing. I understand the gripe but its pointless. Whine and moan and groan all you want, it changes nothing. Its not going to stop the controller makers from putting in sync or is it going to stop a new DJ from using it. Again the arguement has to do with the ego of the snobby DJ that thinks the clubs and parties are their for them, they talk about the "art" of DJing and whine how the club owners and promoters will take someone who uses sync and hasn't paid their dues and undercuts the "real" DJ by doing it on the cheap, boooo hooooooooooo. Up your game because fade in song B, adjust the pitch, beatmatch, fade out song A, and repeat doesn't cut it anymore. If thats how you want to DJ, find Doc Brown and the Delorean and go back to 1985 and you will be a rockstar beatmatcher.

Just so its clear.... I started in 1989, I can manually beatmatch all day with my eyes closed but I have chosen to embrace technology and not moan and groan about it.....

[zestoi]

But to whine about sync and manually beatmatching sounds like a bitter old DJ that can't accept technology. This old "you have to learn the basics" arguement was vaild in 1990 because in 1990 that was the basics, well now its not the basics anymore because the technology has moved it away from that. So its not fair to say to a new DJ, you must learn to beatmatch manually because we are in a different time and there are options.

i'm sure it'll be a long time tho until all clubs welcome dj's using laptops and controllers when they have forked out a decent amount of cash for cdj's and currently expect dj's to use that kit. things may well change in a few years, but atm surely it's not a bad thing for a dj to be able to spin on cdj's *and/or* their controller setup.

if by some miracle i manage to reduce my work load over the next few months and manage to get some gigs i'd like to mix and match using cdj's and/or laptop+controllers. i would say vinyl too but i don't own any dvs software and my vinyl is a bit out of date

[backtothefront]

It is interesting to see the way technology has opened up DJing to 'the masses' although there has always been shit DJ's, maybe there are more now as kit and music is cheaper I suppose.

I must say one thing I've noticed in the Digital DJ age, is the change in the definition of a DJ mix; so many 'mixes' posted on Soundcloud, Mixcloud etc range from 5 to 15 minutes with a couple of tracks and immense amounts of FX plastered all over. In my view this doesn't demonstrate the abililty to play out, just the ability to put a couple of electro house tracks together with some flange/beatmashing et al. I'd never book anyone on that basis, 1 hour minimum straight mix for me personally (and keep the f'ing about with FX to a min please! I'm sure the producer/remixer has already been through many options on the track sequencing!!!). I suppose I'm from the 'era' of 60/90min tapes and that's what everyone submitted 'back in the day'!.

[dj matt blaze]

i'm sure it'll be a long time tho until all clubs welcome dj's using laptops and controllers when they have forked out a decent amount of cash for cdj's and currently expect dj's to use that kit. things may well change in a few years, but atm surely it's not a bad thing for a dj to be able to spin on cdj's *and/or* their controller setup.

if by some miracle i manage to reduce my work load over the next few months and manage to get some gigs i'd like to mix and match using cdj's and/or laptop+controllers. i would say vinyl too but i don't own any dvs software and my vinyl is a bit out of date

I think what is going to happen is the clubs are eventually going to have a minimal setup and a space for a controller and a laptop. In the US, serato is bigger than Traktor and most places have a spot for a laptop and already have an SSL box. I think as controllers get bigger, and more DJs want to use thier own setup, clubs may just have a space for the DJ to put their own gear 12s, cdjs, controller, whatever with a a line going into a soundboard.

[zestoi]

I think what is going to happen is the clubs are eventually going to have a minimal setup and a space for a controller and a laptop. In the US, serato is bigger than Traktor and most places have a spot for a laptop and already have an SSL box. I think as controllers get bigger, and more DJs want to use thier own setup, clubs may just have a space for the DJ to put their own gear 12s, cdjs, controller, whatever with a a line going into a soundboard.

yep, i'd bet something like that will happen. may some time before controllers are really accepted universally tho.

It is interesting to see the way technology has opened up DJing to 'the masses' although there has always been shit DJ's, maybe there are more now as kit and music is cheaper I suppose.

it's like the argument that all PHP programmers are shit. the truth is that they aren't but PHP is so much easier to get into and then *claim* "i am a coder" that %-wise there is a hell of a lot more people who call themselves PHP coders that *are* shit compared to other languages.

as it's easier to get into using controllers than turnables or cdj's or whatever - there *will* be a much higher percentage of people calling themselves dj's that use controllers that are shit compared to on turntables or cdj's. it's just down to numbers...

doesn't mean there aren't plenty of controller based dj's who can dj the ass off more traditional based dj's ofc...