Newbie intro.

[BrianE]

Thanks for all the feedback. My original plan was to get a pioneer 850 set up but at the moment I have more pressing things to spend money on. A friend of mine who uses Pioneer equipment suggested the APC/abelton route because he knew some people using it and the APC and ableton could also be used for production. I understand the importance of learning the true basics of DJing and I don't want to simply be a "Press play DJ". This is really just something to allow me to get my first taste of things and start working on set composition. In a year or so I will likely pick up an 850 setup and become proficient with that before I even think about playing a show.

[Rukks]

The fact that you are so confidently classifying what you are doing with ableton as 'mixing' or 'dj'ing' is disturbing....You can call it playing a live performance or a prepped set but surely you have not actually jockey'd discs because you would not be talking in that tone if you had.

Point not intended for OP

[squidot]

Thanks for all the feedback. My original plan was to get a pioneer 850 set up but at the moment I have more pressing things to spend money on. A friend of mine who uses Pioneer equipment suggested the APC/abelton route because he knew some people using it and the APC and ableton could also be used for production. I understand the importance of learning the true basics of DJing and I don't want to simply be a "Press play DJ". This is really just something to allow me to get my first taste of things and start working on set composition. In a year or so I will likely pick up an 850 setup and become proficient with that before I even think about playing a show.

I think that route makes a lot of sense. You already have the needed gear to get started with djing in ableton so give it a go and see if you like the workflow. I was djing with ableton for a while but it wasn't for me so I moved over to traktor. I personally didnt like the workflow: having to definitely prep a track to play it, the fact that you can't see multiple wav forms at once, or see your effects parameters and wav form the same time, and various other little things bothered me too much. But at the end of the day there are many djs that don't mind the negatives and are able to utilize the positives to play amazing and creative live sets and on the fly remixes. The negative I can see with the apc40 and djing are the lack of knobs for eqing, that and I don't really like abletons internal eq3. Ive seen many people use a traditional mixer in combo with a controller which you can do as well.

I applaud the fact that you want to learn how to beatmatch. Many people here advocate learning that first, but I tend to disagree with them. I have found that most people can learn easier with using sync. It's one less thing to worry about as you get comfortable picking and mixing songs without feeling too overwhelmed and discouraged when you trainwreck a bunch of times. I think that once you get your phrasing, eqing and looping down and things are starting to feel like second nature, that's the time to learn beatmatching. Have fun with your new toys and djing!

[squidot]

The fact that you are so confidently classifying what you are doing with ableton as 'mixing' or 'dj'ing' is disturbing....You can call it playing a live performance or a prepped set but surely you have not actually jockey'd discs because you would not be talking in that tone if you had.

Point not intended for OP

the fact that you can so confidently classify it as not mixing or djing is ignorant. and if you are using traktor to dj then it's also ironic and basically splitting hairs. i would appreciate it if you also wouldn't judge my experience with djing by thinking you know the path that i have taken with a hobby that i enjoy. i started on technics and vinyl about 13 years ago and added cdjs to the mix shortly after. i still use them occasionally to this day to "jockey discs" when the mood strikes. either way it seems a bit irrelevant to actually djing live and on the fly with ableton. it can be done and it is done by djs. just as well as there are probably people who prep their sets to perform but again, that can be done on any medium as well, including records.

[Rukks]

Are you serious most of the members on here use controllers and ableton or traktor. The fact that your saying that ableton isn't actual mixing is wack..... Get a life man

This comment. I should have quoted originally....don't get so harsh on the forums and not expect a harsh response. I use ableton, I also use vinyl, I also use traktor with timecode and a controller, there is a huge difference between what i do with ableton and what I do with vinyl. So yes a proper classification between the two is not ridiculous and does not deserve a harsh response, especially in the context of the thread. Many famous dj's use ableton to mix but they aren't sitting there with a mouse to drag and drop a song onto a clip and then launching it with a mouse click...they still use gear, and they don't set up stuff in arrangement

[squidot]

This comment. I should have quoted originally....don't get so harsh on the forums and not expect a harsh response. I use ableton, I also use vinyl, I also use traktor with timecode and a controller, there is a huge difference between what i do with ableton and what I do with vinyl. So yes a proper classification between the two is not ridiculous and does not deserve a harsh response, especially in the context of the thread. Many famous dj's use ableton to mix but they aren't sitting there with a mouse to drag and drop a song onto a clip and then launching it with a mouse click...they still use gear, and they don't set up stuff in arrangement

i forgot he made that comment and i thought you were talking to me. all i'm saying is ableton can be used in many ways, and live, on the fly djing is definitely one of those ways. anyone who says otherwise just isn't being honest.

[BrianE]

I see a trend of people justifying their way of doing things that comes off as slamming other artists. I'm not here for any of that but rather to broaden my information resources. I have friends that DJ electronic, hip-hop, and produce and all use an array of different tools to do so. It is my goal to be able to learn a mix of everything and even apply other music knowledge and skills to develop my own unique style. This is just a starting point for me based on a few factors. Some of which are cost of equipment and use of equipment down the road. I went back and forth on what set up to get to start because I didn't want to make a purchase that I would end up finding not to be useful down the road. I'm fortunate to have a wide range of influences that I try and lean from rather then disregard one for the other because they are different. I like what squidiot said about the several different aspects of DJing that one can learn before even having to worry about beatmatching. I come from an automotive background and can relate that train of thought to racers learning on gokarts that are automatic so to speak to focus on race lines and braking/accelerating points while not having to worry about shifting starting off. Since there is so many tools and processes I find it beneficial to be able to focus on a few aspects of mixing without being overwhelmed with everything all at once. I also find the different aspects of mixing and producing interesting. I have heard several different takes on what is important. Something that sticks out for me in becoming a successful artist is finding that balance between playing what you want and what people like. I think you can be a great producer and dj but never make it because you lack showmanship and the ability to play or create something that people like. On the other hand you can become a huge mainstream producer and be criticized for being a "press play DJ". Again, relating to something I know and that being cars, Porsche and BMW have been criticized for selling out and making SUV's and other vehicles that are not considered to be pure to the brand. However, had they not made these "sacrifices" they very well could have gone out of business or be subject to take over by another company. I want to be true to myself but at the same time, playing for a crowd of 1 (yourself) is not nearly as fun as moving a crowd of thousands with your music. Sorry for rambling, take it for what it is, I'm just sharing my thoughts be they right, wrong, or indifferent.

[squidot]

Op I think you have the right attitude and outlook so you should do well with djing. It's great that you are thinking about many things and are open to various ideas. I think your race car driving metaphor is spot on too.

Sadly there are always going to be people who will put down an entire way of djing without a second thought and its something that has been going on since I started long ago. Some vinyl djs say using cdjs isn't real djing. Some cdj djs say using traktor isn't real djing. And some traktor djs say ableton isn't real djing. It's probably best to ignore it as you say, because most of these people won't really listen anyhow as they are stuck in their way of thinking.

I say, use whatever you want to dj, as long as you enjoy it and it makes you happy. It's all about the music at the heart of it all...well, at least for me anyhow.

[BrianE]

Thanks for the response. On another note, when I was looking at the APC40 it sounded like I would need a way to split audio outs for mixing. I didn't have much luck finding specifics for the set up I was going for but from what I found, it sounded like the Audio 2 would work for this application. I am using a Lenovo T400 which seems to run Ableton fine with my Axiom 25. With the Audio 2, will I be able to start mixing when my APC40 comes in or did I jump the gun?

[squidot]

Im not too familiar with the audio 2 but it looks like it has 2 1/4 stereo outputs which should be fine. You can use one as your master out and the other as your headphone monitor to cue tracks. If you bought it new it also comes with traktor pro 2 so you can try that as well to see how you like it. There seems to be several good traktor mappings for the apc40.