MP3, WAV or IFF - Can you really hear the difference in a club? - Discuss.

[Daniboy]

When file quality is equal or higher than 320kbps MP3:

limiters, effects, audio interface, audio cables, mixer etc. will matter much more than if the files are WAV or AIFF or whatever....

[calgarc]

jpg or not, no one can see the pixels at 300 dpi

[ZxZDeViLZxZ]

But printing images for print production you can definetly tell the difference especially when you get to wide format publications... Same with cmyk vs rgb or when you get to Pantone.... Print is very different though because you make be scaling images and various things and that matters heavily... Audio isn't being scaled to a physical medium... I'm agreeing with you but pointing out a fundamental difference between audio and images...... An accurate comparison would be vector vs raster?

[keithace]

I could tell the difference when I used to burn CDs for CDJs...

not so much any more...

[Jester]

Mixing from a wav to an mp3 and vice versa in a club is just fookin' stupid, of course you will notice the difference then

[dsquareddan]

where I find it most noticeable is in songs with white noise filter sweeps, like that used during buildups.

White noise is a TON of information at any given time filling up a lot of the frequency spectrum. MP3 works by destroying information it deems not necessary, leaving behind less than 25% of the original file information (1411 kbps to 320kpbs or less). On a large professionally tuned PA system, that white noise sweep when converted to mp3 is extremely harsh and abrasive on the ear drums due to points being squared off during the conversion to lower bit rate. when listening back in lossless quality, it is a much smoother sound and tolerable.

As well, if you play music of the bass heavy variety, mp3 does seem to cut out a substantial amount of sub frequencies below 40hz. Bear in mind you need to be playing on a really good system that can reproduce that low effectively. But for me, the club I work for has a PK Sound system installed, and I can definitely tell a difference in the bass when going from a lossless file to an mp3.

To the average club go-er, they are not going to walk into the venue and go "omg, i can totally tell he is playing lossless songs". But as an artist, I try to live by the motto of you should do everything within your power to deliver the highest quality product possible. For me, that means leaving headroom on the mixer for levels, using lossless files, running through Platinum Notes to make them all the same gain level, mixing in key.

When it comes to audio, you'll quickly learn that you will only sound as good as the weakest point in the chain from audio file to speaker. Do whatever you can to improve on that

[031999]

that makes alot of sense

[Lanz the joiner]

As well, if you play music of the bass heavy variety, mp3 does seem to cut out a substantial amount of sub frequencies below 40hz. Bear in mind you need to be playing on a really good system that can reproduce that low effectively. But for me, the club I work for has a PK Sound system installed, and I can definitely tell a difference in the bass when going from a lossless file to an mp3.

I think club music is much more bass-focussed than other styles of music. So people notice the bassline and subby kicks more. But that doesn't mean it is changes in the low frequencies that you are noticing. My guess is that it is changes in the higher frequencies which might make the bassline sound less punchy, while the actual sub content stays about the same.

I just did some unscientific experiments in Ableton. I exported a 10Hz-2kHz sine wave sweep as wav, then encoded it as 65, 130, 190, and 320kbps mp3. Back in Ableton, you can see that the high frequencies get cut off earlier and earlier as the quality gets shittier. Not much happens to the bass, though. At 65kbps you can hear some artifacts, but the rest of the files sounded identical in that area. Low frequencies are so cheap to encode, I don't see why they would get cut out anyway. Funnily enough, if you export a low frequency sine wave from Ableton and convert it to FLAC and 320kbps mp3, the FLAC file is close to half the size of the MP3. (Not that that proves much about actual music.)



I also did an experiment just now with Steffi's track "Yours" in Traktor. I switched between a lossless version and a 320kbps mp3 at various pitch shifts up to 2.4%, and with key lock on and off. I couldn't notice any difference between them, but I still wish my music collection was lossless, just in case. Nevertheless, I won't be buying wav files any time soon.

[djadrenal]

Hi will,

Of course .wav & .aiff files are better quality, but "most" people could not tell the difference between a nice crisp 320 .mp3 and a .wav, and once these files go through a sound system, it all evens out anyway

Most people may not be able to put their finger on it, but they will perceive it through "feel" if nothing else, in a club with a decent system.

[djadrenal]

where I find it most noticeable is in songs with white noise filter sweeps, like that used during buildups.

White noise is a TON of information at any given time filling up a lot of the frequency spectrum. MP3 works by destroying information it deems not necessary, leaving behind less than 25% of the original file information (1411 kbps to 320kpbs or less). On a large professionally tuned PA system, that white noise sweep when converted to mp3 is extremely harsh and abrasive on the ear drums due to points being squared off during the conversion to lower bit rate. when listening back in lossless quality, it is a much smoother sound and tolerable.

As well, if you play music of the bass heavy variety, mp3 does seem to cut out a substantial amount of sub frequencies below 40hz. Bear in mind you need to be playing on a really good system that can reproduce that low effectively. But for me, the club I work for has a PK Sound system installed, and I can definitely tell a difference in the bass when going from a lossless file to an mp3.

To the average club go-er, they are not going to walk into the venue and go "omg, i can totally tell he is playing lossless songs". But as an artist, I try to live by the motto of you should do everything within your power to deliver the highest quality product possible. For me, that means leaving headroom on the mixer for levels, using lossless files, running through Platinum Notes to make them all the same gain level, mixing in key.

When it comes to audio, you'll quickly learn that you will only sound as good as the weakest point in the chain from audio file to speaker. Do whatever you can to improve on that

Nice post! Especially this, "When it comes to audio, you'll quickly learn that you will only sound as good as the weakest point in the chain from audio file to speaker. Do whatever you can to improve on that".

I wish more dj's etc. would adhere to this. MB's of storage are so cheap these days, having lossless shouldn't be a problem. And before you talk about cost, remember the days of vinyls and CD's being the only way to get this music? Even at $2.49 USD a track, that is cheap compared to what we used to pay. It will also keep you more selective about your music. Once I started buying lossless, I would say my music selection got better because I wasn't randomly just grabbing everything out there. I have to really love to track to drop the cash. Also, be a pro, not an amateur. One last point, the more people start buying wavs, etc. the more prices should be able to come down. Or if you buy them and support other sites than Beatport, it will breed more competition for Beatport's high prices for lossless(one of my biggest pet peeves, don't even get me started there). Competition is good for the consumer! Think about it! :-)