Behringer CMD Series

[Stewe]

Am i misunderstanding something, or does that mean (in traktor at least) every time you change a mapping, you'd have to duplicate it and re-learn all of the commands for the second virtual deck....?

Not entire re-mapping, just change deck assignments

[partylike1369]

Something i noticed: The fx unit has A, B, C, D while the deck unit has 1, 2, 3, 4

[nem0nic]

Am i misunderstanding something, or does that mean (in traktor at least) every time you change a mapping, you'd have to duplicate it and re-learn all of the commands for the second virtual deck....?

Yes, that is what it means (if you want the PL-1 to be mapped that way). But all you would be doing is taking the stock mapping and changing the deck assignment (as Stewe said) for the redundant decks.

[oilythread]

Right, so if you want to do anything besides all three of the following criteria:
-four track decks
-on a single PL-1
-with the stock mapping

then you have to spend the time to duplicate your mappings and go through and change the deck assignment for every single control to make them redundant. Plus, you then have to deal with the fact that the LED deck readouts are now incorrect.... And even if you didn't want to make a custom mapping, you'd still have to do this if you wanted to use anything besides four track decks, without having to hit the deck switch button extra times while you're playing.

For example this means that to make a custom mapping for even the SIMPLEST-to-set-up possible workflow for more than one PL-1 (which is four track decks on two PL-1's)....you would have to (for the left PL-1):
Duplicate the mapping for virtual deck 1 three times, then go through and change the deck assignment for every single control on virtual decks 2 and 4 to Deck C. Then do the same thing on the right PL-1 for decks 1 and 3 to Deck D.

And then you'd have to always remember that the LED readouts are wrong... and they are now set so that 1&3 on the left PL-1 is A and 2&4 is C, and for the right PL-1 1&3 are B and 2&4 are D...


I'm sure you'll release a stock mapping for two PL-1's that has this built in, so nobody will NOT be able to use them because they don't know mapping, but ANY change to the stock mapping is much more needlessly difficult with this system. Plus even if you use the stock mapping for two PL-1's the LED readouts for the selected deck are only ever are accurate if you use four track decks and one PL-1.

I understand that you did this so that the PL-1 will work for multiple decks in software that doesn't support modifiers, but why not just solve both problems by building into the firmware the ability to turn off the deck switch button's access to certain decks...? Then the LED readouts would be correct, and the customer wouldn't have to go through extra work if they wanted to buy more than one of your PL-1's (which I'm sure at least half of people will). Plus if you allowed ALL of the decks to be turned off, then the deck button would still be sending a midi note, and would work as a standard mappable button, which people are already concerned about.


Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, this is the first design flaw I've seen in the CMD series, but it's a pretty large one.

[nem0nic]

...then you have to spend the time to duplicate your mappings and go through and change the deck assignment for every single control to make them redundant.

Correct. However you're making this out to be a bigger task than it really is, since the 4 deck mapping is already made. If you want (for example) the left PL-1 to toggle between deck A and C, then you simply go through the TSI and change the deck B and D commands to A and C.

And you only ever do this once.

And then you'd have to always remember that the LED readouts are wrong... and they are now set so that 1&3 on the left PL-1 is A and 2&4 is C, and for the right PL-1 1&3 are B and 2&4 are D

Right again. But this is an artificial problem created because you've decided to change the TSI because you feel that using the deck switching as implemented is unacceptable. That said, I don't think it's too much of a problem to remember that odd is the first deck and even is the second deck (or 1&2 are first deck and 3&4 are second, or however you decide to map it).

Plus even if you use the stock mapping for two PL-1's the LED readouts for the selected deck are only ever are accurate if you use four track decks and one PL-1.

I've been using 2 PL-1s with the default 4 deck behavior for months. The deck LED readouts are ALWAYS correct for both units 100% of the time.

I understand that you did this so that the PL-1 will work for multiple decks in software that doesn't support modifiers, but why not just solve both problems by building into the firmware the ability to turn off the deck switch button's access to certain decks...?

Because the only use case to support that feature is to alleviate a mapping frustration I believe very few users will ever have (and is VERY easily taken care of by spending a couple minutes editing the TSI once). The only use case in which your solution provides a clear advantage is when the user wants to only cycle through 3 decks with a single PL-1.

I actually just sat here and modified the 4 deck TSI to do a deck A/C toggle instead and it took me just a hair over 5 minutes. Now I have a 2 deck toggle TSI. If I was REALLY worried about knowing which deck the PL-1 was assigned to (and had a hard time remembering that odd is A and even is C), then it would be super easy to toggle the LOAD button between solid and flashing to help indicate deck status (DECK note toggles a modifier, modifier switches between 2 LOAD output messages).

I think you might be making a mountain out of a molehill.

[LiamC]

I've been using 2 PL-1s with the default 4 deck behavior for months. The deck LED readouts are ALWAYS correct for both units 100% of the time.

Months?! And we're STILL waiting on a release date?!

I kid, just really stoked for them to come out. It is seriously the perfect setup I am going to have for Traktor.

[oilythread]

I've been using 2 PL-1s with the default 4 deck behavior for months. The deck LED readouts are ALWAYS correct for both units 100% of the time.

Yes, but you've had to hit the deck button twice every time you want to switch from A to C or B to D, haven't you?

I think you might be making a mountain out of a molehill.

Well nah, you're right about the mapping, I didn't mean to make that my main point, the mapping issue is a pain in the ass for custom mappers, but not THAT huge a deal...

But the mechanic itself is quite a problem of use cases. This system is tailored specifically for people using a single PL-1 to switch between all four decks. So much so that anyone who is using it for anything else can't use the LED feedback correctly, and has to press the deck button extra times in the middle of a set. Fact is that majority of people are not going to be using a single PL-1 to switch between four track decks, so the majority of people who use these controllers (at least for traktor, which I'm going to still assume makes them the majority) are going to have to press the deck button extra times, and not be able to use the LED readout as intended...

I'm just saying, this is a design flaw, and one that could be easily remedied by building an option into the firmware to toggle the PL-1's access to specific virtual decks.

[Stewe]

Switching between all four decks can be mapped in one of firmware pages if needed so that should be no problem. Meaning, having another PL-1 with this same mapping but in second page could give full control over decks without needing do change any layers.

I assume that 4A got the same toggle with firmware for A-C and B-D buttons as well as DV-1 for focus.

[kooper1980]

Am I missing something? If I want to use 2 PL-1's then all I do is go into the mapping and ensure that deck 1&2 on the left hand controller are mapped to decks A&C in Traktor and decks 1&2 on the right hand controller are mapped to decks B&D in Traktor. Then I can delete the unwanted mappings on each controller for decks 3&4?

[oilythread]

Am I missing something? If I want to use 2 PL-1's then all I do is go into the mapping and ensure that deck 1&2 on the left hand controller are mapped to decks A&C in Traktor and decks 1&2 on the right hand controller are mapped to decks B&D in Traktor. Then I can delete the unwanted mappings on each controller for decks 3&4?

Yes, but you still have to scroll through all four decks on both controllers to get to the one you want. So to toggle from A to C you'd have to press it once, but to go from C back to A, you'd have to hit the button three times. If you mess up and only hit it twice without realizing it, you've just missed your mix in point on by pressing play on an empty page. Or if you want you could go through the effort of duplicating and re deck focusing everything twice and put Deck A on 1/3 and deck C on 2/4, but then your LED readouts are wrong, and you have to remember that even is A and odd is B every single time you want to make sure you're on the right deck before you press any button.

This is why I'm saying they should just add the ability to turn off access to specific firmware pages, to alleviate this entire issue. This would also allow you to turn them all off and just map the deck button normally... A feature that people are already disappointed by the lack of.

It'd be great to have 1 as A and 3 as C, so you know where you're at with a glance, don't need any extra button presses, and don't need to do go though four steps to remap each control, instead of two.