Forget beatgridding vs beatmatching...

[J5k]

I might be going a bit off topic here, but does anyone else feel that using something like this software to create your mashups before hand and then just playing the resulting audio file in a Dj set is cheating in a sense? I bought a few mashups recently from Juno that while I love the tracks, I don't see myself ever playing them in a set, since they sound like what I'm learning to do with just two turntables.

Iow, I have way more respect for the Dj when I hear a mashup that he/she is creating on the spot, vs a Dj who's just playing a single track that is a mashup he created in a studio.

[Rev1911]

And your car is not? While my car is automatic I have the option of manually shifting. Choice is good.

My car is a manual. But we're not talking about my car. We're talking about your car.

Your car is an automatic regardless of having some sort of manual shifting capability. It does not have a clutch pedal. You put it in drive and go. You want automated set creation assistance through an app that does the prep for you.

This means you want less choice than you currently have. You want the choice made for you.

I originally Created this thread to sarcastically illustrate the automation available to DJs. While I wholeheartedly believe technology and tools are both good and useful, I also firmly believe that having things done for you is anti-productive in the long run.

This post is not meant to be an attack on you, my friend. I'm just making my point.

[GeekGod]

This post is not meant to be an attack on you, my friend. I'm just making my point.

And I did not treat it is as a attack. I am trying to make the point that having additional software can be a good thing and not a bad thing.

Just because its not useful to one person does not mean its not going to be useful to someone else.

PS: I said nothing about completely automating a set creation - I am looking for a tool to help me during this process - not eliminate the process altogether.

[Maxted]

I could see this maybe being useful for building around a certain sample, lets say a vocal part, then find all your loops/samples that fit well..obviously you can do that anyway, especially as most people key/bpm their loops/samples anyway, this would just be a bit faster.

[mbthegreat]

I originally Created this thread to sarcastically illustrate the automation available to DJs. While I wholeheartedly believe technology and tools are both good and useful, I also firmly believe that having things done for you is anti-productive in the long run.

This.

It's one thing to rely on the computer for your beatmatching, cos it's all about selection and "being creative" right? Anyway I'm sure everyone playing in clubs can beatmatch manually easy, but chooses not to.

Then you introduce stuff like MiK, which is great (I have a copy), and you're now using the computer to keep track of what key everything is in. But that's not that different to people like me right? We carry around a database of what key things are in in our heads, not quite in a neat Camelot system but it's in there somewhere.

Now you want software that pulls out compatible tracks for you, so you don't even need to look at that key column in Traktor. And it seems like you even want it to tell you where is best to mix in and out of the tracks, and if a computer can do that it's pretty cool.

Problem is one day the computer is going to fall over, the backup computer is going to fall over and you're going to be left with a pair of CDJs and your backup CD wallet. Nervous energy will get you beatmatching great again really quickly, but you'll have no clue how any of your tracks sound or how they fit together. Combined with the fact that it is possible to carry around 20,000 songs with you and suddenly you are totally lost.

You've given the computer the job of telling you what tunes to mix. Even if technology is 100% reliable, what's the point of you even being there anymore? Pretty soon it seems the computer will be able to buy the tracks for you, which is great, it will really speed up the "workflow". Add in an algorithm to overuse effects and there's no need for a DJ at all anymore.

Rant over.

*addressed to a hypothetical "you", no one in particular.

[Rev1911]

Mbthegreat, thank you.

Glad someone agrees.

[GeekGod]

I don't think you will find anyone that disagrees entirely with what you all are saying. A DJ needs to know how to be a "DJ". I get that.

All I am looking for is a media player with additional features so when I am planning a set I do not need to be using Traktor. If that media player had a few features such as showing the key the song is in or being able to play two songs at once that is an added plus. But regardless of if the media player tells you that two songs are compatible it may not be the case. A person still has to use THEIR BRAIN to make that final determination.

I really did not want to turn this into a DJ war - there are enough of these threads in existence already.

[Maxted]

I don't think you will find anyone that disagrees entirely with what you all are saying. A DJ needs to know how to be a "DJ". I get that.

All I am looking for is a media player with additional features so when I am planning a set I do not need to be using Traktor. If that media player had a few features such as showing the key the song is in or being able to play two songs at once that is an added plus. But regardless of if the media player tells you that two songs are compatible it may not be the case. A person still has to use THEIR BRAIN to make that final determination.

I really did not want to turn this into a DJ war - there are enough of these threads in existence already.

Audiofinder is good, think its OS X only though. Like a media browser but with some good editing capabilities, like audacity with a library.

[GeekGod]

Audiofinder is good, think its OS X only though. Like a media browser but with some good editing capabilities, like audacity with a library.

Thanks - I will be checking that one out!

[Rev1911]

I don't think you will find anyone that disagrees entirely with what you all are saying. A DJ needs to know how to be a "DJ". I get that.

All I am looking for is a media player with additional features so when I am planning a set I do not need to be using Traktor. If that media player had a few features such as showing the key the song is in or being able to play two songs at once that is an added plus. But regardless of if the media player tells you that two songs are compatible it may not be the case. A person still has to use THEIR BRAIN to make that final determination.

I really did not want to turn this into a DJ war - there are enough of these threads in existence already.

I hear you, buddy. No wars starting in my thread. We're just discussing the topic at hand. This is my opinion.

I don't use Traktor... hence, my little dig in the original post. I use RekordBox in conjunction with the old version of MIK which gives me a key value and nothing more. I find the best way (for me) to prep a set or play with layering songs is a)listen to your tracks in the car/in your home/at the gym/whatever and b) mess around on your decks and try different combos. Some of my favorite times are when my buddies and I just 'freestyle' back and forth on the decks.. no planning tracks or anything, just going through your collection, sorting by key if you want, and jamming out to your favorite genre to see where the mix takes you.

If/when I plan a set, the primary steps are taken far away from my laptop or my computer. I think this is what mbthegreat touched on and was ultimately the point I tried to get across. The manual effort (if you can call listening to your fav style of music "effort") involved in shaping our craft can never be replicated by some slick algorithm or auto-mashup app.

I'm in no way a 'purist' when it comes to this stuff. I learned on the NS7, then got an S4 (and yes, used sync), then went the straight CDJ/rekordbox route.. beatmatching and all. I know what's possible with controllers and apps and whatnot. However, I believe the automated ease with which modern 'production' can take place will eventually detract from the quality of the production itself, and ultimately the undiscerning (general) public will come to know these new creations as "excellent", leaving those of us who drive stick to air our discontent on internet forums.