Logic pro vs ableton live for a beginner

[Aldo]

i think there are 2 good combinations of gear atm:

1.) novation remote 25SL mkII: have a keyboard, have a daw control, AUTOMAP (not works with every vst really proper, but the few which make problems with the automap you just don't use the automapped version and control it with midi-learn like you would without novations automap, but for all the vst's which the automap works proper, you save a lot of time), price is not so high, no extra features besides a midi-control unit

2.) novation zero sl mkII + arturia the laboratory 49 (or v-collection): have a keyboard, have a daw control, AUTOMAP, a collection of really good synthesizer emulations, price is higher, not only midi-control but 7 SYNTH's extra

i admit the second choice is not really for beginners, but when you don't asking yourself if it will be your hobby for a long time anymore, you can think about making a bigger step at the beginning and save some money in the future ;o)

Thanks for bring arturia as a choice. I have no idea about other brand beside m audio, novation or akai. LOL. U just opn my eyes.

One question. Can i just start with the laboratory?? I check the review that it can work as a midi controller also. Its has knob, slider, n pads (even though only 4). So what am i missing on this? Can u explain to me why i need zero mk2 also?. Thanks

[mostapha]

Ultrabeat and ES2 are extremely powerful tools in Logic. Mostapha said he thinks the GUI looks ugly. That's his personal preference and it in no way means they are shitty tools. I personally find them amazing. Learn them, use them.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. I like it's 303 (ESM or something).

Also…I havne't been impressed with Arturia's stuff. The Analog Laboratory demo makes it seem like it's a crap ton of presets with very limited capabilities and that actually making patches would require you to also buy their individual synth emulations. Plus, there's not enough control.

I'd forego it and just learn Logic's synths instead. Or, if you're like me, start shopping for hardware. But that's a whole different can of worms.

[Aldo]

Agreed, wholeheartedly. I like it's 303 (ESM or something).

Also…I havne't been impressed with Arturia's stuff. The Analog Laboratory demo makes it seem like it's a crap ton of presets with very limited capabilities and that actually making patches would require you to also buy their individual synth emulations. Plus, there's not enough control.

I'd forego it and just learn Logic's synths instead. Or, if you're like me, start shopping for hardware. But that's a whole different can of worms.

Like u said bfore that i need a midi controller. And my choices are 25 sl mk2, or axiom pro. But some member bring it up arturia the laboratory, which isna midi controller with extra software.

Any suggestion from u about midi controller?

[mostapha]

Not really. I use maschine to control the maschine software and it's Mackie control emulation to control logic, though the MC template is kinda kludgy. My keyboard is a key rig 49 that a friend gave me at some point that kinda sucks but is good enough for how badly I play keyboard.

I've heard good things about the axiom an axiom pro and the bigger Akai controllers and liked the axiom I used for a while. The analog lab is probably fine, I just don't like the software. And that same friend has an electric piano in his living room with 3 pedals and fully weighted keys, so I'd probably use that if I needed anything more expressive.

The after-touch on the arturia stuff is pretty cool if your synth can use it. But I'd probably look at a minibrute long before I'd buy one of the analog experience/lab things.

I'm also probably going to be getting into hardware anyway, so my needs for midi keyboards are pretty basic. And I haven't liked much of what i've seen of keyboards' DAW control compared to actually saving up for a DAW controller like a Mackie Control or the Avid Artist line. But I've also (briefly) used a big SSL desk, so there are a few things that I'd rather not have than have to use cheap copies of.

The Maschine MC emulation leaves a lot to be desired, but I'd rather have encoders than unmotorized faders, and if you're doing that with a keyboard, you're already talking about mapping it yourself, which is something that I think is a waste of time.

[Aldo]

Thanks for the input. I dont think i can afford mackie interface at the momment. So i still can't decide which one should i buy.

I really want to get the arturia the laboratory since it come with the software also, but it not automap. So i need to map it myself. So i cant decide. LoL

[mostapha]

Oh, no. You don't need a real DAW controller for a long time. Neither do I. That's why Maschine works for me. I just don't want to waste money on a stop-gap solution that I'm not going to be happy with.

Also, there are a lot of people who hate automap. IDK…I've never really used it.

[racoon]

i've talked to my friend again who is using the arturia laboratory 49 now a little longer than a week and could tell me some further experiences.

he admit that the midi-control function of the arturia keyboard is somehow limited and a config mess, because its always somehow controlling the arturia synth's even when you try to config this knob to control something else, i've heard that the smaller ones like "the player" haven't so much probs this way because they are from scratch more "just dumb midi controllers" which aren't bundled so heavy to the software, i would say this whole thing needs to be checked and tested before i can say its a good bet to buy.
(for someone who doesn't really aim for the synth-emulations and just want an midi keyboard with maybe some extra features)

the sl mk2 zero was just an addition to have automap and some more faders and encoders besides your keyboard, but it's no need i think.

in reality nothing of this is a NEED, you can do everything with your standard keyboard and a mouse, until you WORK SO MUCH in your DAW that you BENEFIT from the faster way to do something with controllers, but before you come to this point you need to know what do to, which you're need to learn before ^^

[Bunford]

Deadmau5 (one of the biggest gear heads around) uses Ableton to produce. That should be all you need to know to convince you Ableton is more than capable

I believe Skrillex (whether you like him or not) also uses Ableton.

Other contenders include Cubase (used by Flux Pavillion) and even FL Studio (used by xKore).

Kinda shows that you can get results with any DAW and it's horses for courses really. Different users will get on with different DAWs.

Personally, I have Ableton and Logic, as well as Reason on a Mac and Cubase on a PC. Out of all of them, I've found Logic the more intuitive one to settle on as it fits me and my style. However, I also like Ableton and use it with Reason rewireed into it a lot.

I then use Pro Tools HD 9 to master the productions. Kinda depends what yo're aiming for and budget. For an all-in-one production and mastering tool, I'd go for Logic due to (whether noticable or not) technically superior audio core, the ability to use as a mastering tool with better/customisable mixer views and the ability to edit the workflow over dual monitors and see your arrangement and mixer views clearly.

Lack of being able to create a customised dual monitor workflow is one thing Logic absolutely kicks Ableton butt on as it's not possible on Ableton. You simply have the option to stretch the Ableton screen over two monitors and that's it. In Logic you can have arrangement window on one monitor and then mixers, samplers, piano roll etc on the other monitor to create a workflow that just works without stifling creativitiy.

As I said, Logic works best for me but veryone has their own 'fit'.

[Coldfuzion]

Don't focus on the DAW. Pick one, learn it, and use it. It's not the DAW, it's how much time you choose to invest into learning your DAW. I myself use different DAWs in different studios. When I produce electronic I use Ableton, when I produce hip hop / rap I use Cubase and run FL studio in it as a VST to create my beats. The reason I do this is because when I produce hip hop it's with 2 other good friends (one who raps and another producer). The other producer is used to using Cubase with FL inside it, so that's why we do that.

As for MIDI Controllers the SL 49 MK II is perfectly fine. You don't have to use Automap if you don't want to. If you want to see what I use to produce, feel free to click in the link on my signature.

[mostapha]

For an all-in-one production and mastering tool, I'd go for Logic due to (whether noticable or not) technically superior audio core

That's wrong. If you honestly think Ableton sounds worse than Logic, it's because you're using Ableton wrong…probably by time-stretching everything when you might not need to.

I'm not convinced that the DAWs sound different at all as long as you know how to use them.

in reality nothing of this is a NEED, you can do everything with your standard keyboard and a mouse, until you WORK SO MUCH in your DAW that you BENEFIT from the faster way to do something with controllers, but before you come to this point you need to know what do to, which you're need to learn before ^^

I agree with you about learning first, but I don't think it's just a matter of doing things faster. Having a real control surface can help your creative workflow…if you have things set up right, you can just do things instead of trying to figure out how to do them.

Workflow is IMHO the only valid reason to own things like analog mixing boards and hardware synths. And I hope to be able to afford both at some point.