Lol tip for anyone buying a macbook...

[botstein]

I can see how some people can post on line about how wrong it is or how its fraud (probly the same group that have never broken any law no matter how little or dumb it may be IE: Jaywalking)

I would speak as sort of an opposite to this - I've never been behind bars, but I got in to way to much trouble - often for breaking laws I thought were little and dumb - before I became more cautious. I would like to encourage everybody to at least be careful and not make assumptions one way or the other. Where Apple gives you the discount just for being a student or teacher, it's worth asking other companies, like Native Instruments, for example, what strings come with their educational discounts. They told me this:

"Please note that educational versions have the following three limitations, they´re
1.) Not allowed for commercial use,
2.) Only allowed for installation on a single computer and
3.) Not re-salable.

"

To me, being unable to sell a piece of gear is a big deal, being restricted to one computer is a bigger deal, and being 'not allowed for commercial use' is simply a deal-breaker. It's also important to remember that NI is a Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung, which gives it the same rights as a human.

[DJKyleHughes]

I would speak as sort of an opposite to this - I've never been behind bars, but I got in to way to much trouble - often for breaking laws I thought were little and dumb - before I became more cautious. I would like to encourage everybody to at least be careful and not make assumptions one way or the other. Where Apple gives you the discount just for being a student or teacher, it's worth asking other companies, like Native Instruments, for example, what strings come with their educational discounts. They told me this:


"

To me, being unable to sell a piece of gear is a big deal, being restricted to one computer is a bigger deal, and being 'not allowed for commercial use' is simply a deal-breaker. It's also important to remember that NI is a Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung, which gives it the same rights as a human.

Wow Sam, I never pictured you as a "Trouble maker" haha

[Louie_V]

There is a big difference between stating something to legally cover your ass, and actually enforcing it. I have de-registered and sold an edu native piece with the help of a native instruments employee.

As for the apple thing, have i gotten a macbook with the edu discount? Yep, and i was actually in school but did not have to show any proof. Have i purchased other equipment with an edu discount? yep, and again didnt have to show proof. The reason i wasn't asked for proof was because they really didn't care, it wasn't enforced and the retailer didn't enforce it because the manufacturer dosen't enforce it. Hell, there are some retailers that buy a lot of products at an EDU discount and re-sell them as a full retail version. Some manufactures actually use that as an incentive for larger orders.

The EDU just acts as a "backdoor" discount that enables you to offer some a discount without being obligated to offer all a discount.

[ToOntown]

Who wouldn't want to save $90? I think we all cheat some system one way or another in our lifetime.

[botstein]

Wow Sam, I never pictured you as a "Trouble maker" haha

When I was your age, man...

[tokenasianguy]

Who wouldn't want to save $90? I think we all cheat some system one way or another in our lifetime.

I totally agree.

Everyone here has broken some law. Especially on these forums, I see so many links to mix sets and I don't think anyone has paid for licensing on those songs.

Are all the people talking about "fraud" American? I would never think that has anything to do with it, but I noticed when I posted my cross-border shopping thread, all the Americans on here were up in arms about how wrong it is and how much trouble you can get in. However when I asked all my Canadian friends they were all telling me about how easy it is and how they always do it. It also reminds me of how much harder it is to get into the US whether you're travelling by car or plane, and the fact that numerous people in the US have been taken to court for hundreds of thousands of dollars over the few MP3's they downloaded.

[Shishdisma]

I totally agree.

Everyone here has broken some law. Especially on these forums, I see so many links to mix sets and I don't think anyone has paid for licensing on those songs.

Are all the people talking about "fraud" American? I would never think that has anything to do with it, but I noticed when I posted my cross-border shopping thread, all the Americans on here were up in arms about how wrong it is and how much trouble you can get in. However when I asked all my Canadian friends they were all telling me about how easy it is and how they always do it. It also reminds me of how much harder it is to get into the US whether you're travelling by car or plane, and the fact that numerous people in the US have been taken to court for hundreds of thousands of dollars over the few MP3's they downloaded.

What does being American have to do with it? Just because a given country actually enforces laws that are in place for a reason doesnt have anything to do with the legality of the action. Misrepresentation of identity with intent to profit is fraud, plain and simple, if you get caught, you can be charged with fraud. Casually "cheating a system to save some money" is disgusting, and is exactly the kind of attitude that can slip a society into complete deregulation.

If you want to see the results of everyone casually "cheating the system to save money," look at Greece's complete financial meltdown. Tax fraud and evasion is commonplace, and the Greeks didnt seem to see the big deal with it. Now they're completely insolvent, and royally fucking the EU. The attitude that something that isn't enforced isn't illegal is a systemic failure.

[tokenasianguy]

What does being American have to do with it? Just because a given country actually enforces laws that are in place for a reason doesnt have anything to do with the legality of the action. Misrepresentation of identity with intent to profit is fraud, plain and simple, if you get caught, you can be charged with fraud. Casually "cheating a system to save some money" is disgusting, and is exactly the kind of attitude that can slip a society into complete deregulation.

If you want to see the results of everyone casually "cheating the system to save money," look at Greece's complete financial meltdown. Tax fraud and evasion is commonplace, and the Greeks didnt seem to see the big deal with it. Now they're completely insolvent, and royally fucking the EU. The attitude that something that isn't enforced isn't illegal is a systemic failure.

You contradicted yourself in this response.

The "country" has everything to do with it and how diligently they enforce their laws...You even provided the example of "Greece".

I'm not talking about whether or not the aforementioned things are illegal, just that a countries tendency to "enforce" laws usually dictates whether its citizens will try to break them...Or possibly that American citizens are more likely to avoid breaking any laws because they've seen some people receive stiff penalties for various things that citizens in other countries are more relaxed about. Your example of tax fraud and evasion in Greece was a perfect example the point I was trying to make.

[Shishdisma]

You contradicted yourself in this response.

The "country" has everything to do with it and how diligently they enforce their laws...You even provided the example of "Greece".

I'm not talking about whether or not the aforementioned things are illegal, just that a countries tendency to "enforce" laws usually dictates whether its citizens will try to break them...Or possibly that American citizens are more likely to avoid breaking any laws because they've seen some people receive stiff penalties for various things that citizens in other countries are more relaxed about. Your example of tax fraud and evasion in Greece was a perfect example the point I was trying to make.

It seemed like you were trying to rationalize it, and I was striking that point with the fury of an accountant. As an analysis, you're fairly correct, you just have to make the distinction between something being "not enforced or widely accepted" and "ethically and legally right."

[tokenasianguy]

It seemed like you were trying to rationalize it, and I was striking that point with the fury of an accountant. As an analysis, you're fairly correct, you just have to make the distinction between something being "not enforced or widely accepted" and "ethically and legally right."

Absolutely.

I try to be as lawful as I possibly can, but I'd be lying if I didn't say the severity of the crime and likelihood of getting caught wasn't always in consideration.

This forum successfully freaked me from the idea of buying speakers across the border, and that sucks because I was sold on the idea before coming on here.