DiskPlay - Digital Vinyl Evolved

[djchriswoods.co.uk]

I love the idea of this, i can see where the draw backs of its practical uses are but the theory is 100% sound. Keep working on it

[skulpture]

This is a really great idea and big props to you giving it a go.

I can see a few problems/issues though (I am NOT hating, just opening up a discussion)

- A lot of people couldn't afford one or two projectors and stands. Would small Pico projectors be up for the job or would the resolution be too low?
- If you did have two projectors then they will be right in front (or very close) to being directly in front of the DJ - this is almost worse than a laptop scree. Unless you did some video mapping from afar or bounced off mirrors - its not a simple projection set up. Not for the 'average' person anyway.
- Maybe instead of projection using iPad mini or small Andriod tablets which are used as extra/additional monitors (maybe even iPods or iphones/andriod phones?). These could be placed just in front of the turntable.... slanted slightly. (normally where all the cables and power are!) Even on small stands or arms.
- If this is running off the same machine as the software its going to add a lot of CPU and GPU resources.

BUT like I sad great great idea this really made me smile. Look forward watching it develop!

[lethal_pizzle]

It's cool. Completely impractical. But cool.

[Bonzo]

First of all thanks for taking the time and bringing so many questions.

A lot of people couldn't afford one or two projectors and stands. Would small Pico projectors be up for the job or would the resolution be too low?

It would be possible to use one projector (with a high resolution), mounted on top, to project on both turntables or use 2 small pico projectors. The resolution of a pico projector (typically 640x480 or more) would definetely be enough. But you would need to make sure that actually use the whole projection to display the application.

If you did have two projectors then they will be right in front (or very close) to being directly in front of the DJ - this is almost worse than a laptop scree. Unless you did some video mapping from afar or bounced off mirrors - its not a simple projection set up. Not for the 'average' person anyway.

I dont exactly know what are trying to say here. The projectors can be mounted so that they don't restrict the DJ's movement or field of vision. You can either use a tripod or mount them to the ceiling or anything else that does the job. But you are right. Setting these things up is definitely not for the average person (a turntable with an integrated display would be the ultimate goal).

Maybe instead of projection using iPad mini or small Andriod tablets which are used as extra/additional monitors (maybe even iPods or iphones/andriod phones?). These could be placed just in front of the turntable.... slanted slightly. (normally where all the cables and power are!) Even on small stands or arms.

Actually adding displays in another place is what we want to avoid. Using the record itself as the display has many advantages over secondadry screens. You are shifting the focus to where it is really needed, where you are working with your hands. Looking back and forth between computer screen and record when navigating a track (finding cuepoints or beats) is a nuisance and timeconsuming.
Moving the display right below the turntable could help with that because you will not have to go all the way to the computer screen. But in the end will still be the same problem.

If this is running off the same machine as the software its going to add a lot of CPU and GPU resources.

Yes, drawing waveforms is pretty heavy stuff. It takes CPU and GPU time. But it is not that much. Audio playback and usabilty of your host software (scratch live in this case) is not influenced by DiskPlay. We made sure that this will not happen. But what actually does happen instead is that you may see stuttering of the diskplay visualization.
There is a workaroung for that. DiskPlay actually gets its information over the network. By using a quartz composition in the video deck of scratch Live, we are pumping out the information via a network multicast. This enables us to connect to the datastream without any network configuration even from other machines. What this exactly means is that you can run scratch live on one machine and do the output on another machine which is in the same local network. But this is optional.

Thanks for bringing up your concerns, keep em coming. It helps me to get my head around things

[skulpture]

First of all thanks for taking the time and bringing so many questions.

No problem; just didn't want you to think I was being awkward or "trolling" you as the kids say these days. I VJ and am really into visual arts so got quite a bit of experience with visuals and projectors, etc...

It would be possible to use one projector (with a high resolution), mounted on top, to project on both turntables or use 2 small pico projectors. The resolution of a pico projector (typically 640x480 or more) would definetely be enough. But you would need to make sure that actually use the whole projection to display the application

.

Thats good to know.

I dont exactly know what are trying to say here. The projectors can be mounted so that they don't restrict the DJ's movement or field of vision. You can either use a tripod or mount them to the ceiling or anything else that does the job. But you are right. Setting these things up is definitely not for the average person (a turntable with an integrated display would be the ultimate goal).

You said the key thing for me here: a turntable with an integrated display would be the ultimate goal! I totally agree. If you used see through Vinyls then the underneath could be an LCD display. This is a MASSIVE idea!!! Would be great to buy some old monitors and somehow try and build a turntable in/around them.

Actually adding displays in another place is what we want to avoid. Using the record itself as the display has many advantages over secondadry screens. You are shifting the focus to where it is really needed, where you are working with your hands. Looking back and forth between computer screen and record when navigating a track (finding cuepoints or beats) is a nuisance and timeconsuming.
Moving the display right below the turntable could help with that because you will not have to go all the way to the computer screen. But in the end will still be the same problem.

Fair points but as above; having them in the turntable would be amazing. People may then complain though that the DJ is just looking down all the time? Just to play devils advocate... I guess we do that anyway a little. You simply cant be looking forward ALL the time....

Yes, drawing waveforms is pretty heavy stuff. It takes CPU and GPU time. But it is not that much. Audio playback and usabilty of your host software (scratch live in this case) is not influenced by DiskPlay. We made sure that this will not happen. But what actually does happen instead is that you may see stuttering of the diskplay visualization.
There is a workaroung for that. DiskPlay actually gets its information over the network. By using a quartz composition in the video deck of scratch Live, we are pumping out the information via a network multicast. This enables us to connect to the datastream without any network configuration even from other machines. What this exactly means is that you can run scratch live on one machine and do the output on another machine which is in the same local network. But this is optional.

Ah good old Quartz.... so you have two machines powering this? One for Audio; one for Video? Would be interesting to see if a Raspberry Pi built into a turntable (and connect to a LCD) could receive this information from the main Host machine and power the graphics. Maybe Pure Data (PD) driven?

Thanks for bringing up your concerns, keep em coming. It helps me to get my head around things

No problem - love this type of forward thinking!

[Bonzo]

Ah good old Quartz.... so you have two machines powering this? One for Audio; one for Video? Would be interesting to see if a Raspberry Pi built into a turntable (and connect to a LCD) could receive this information from the main Host machine and power the graphics. Maybe Pure Data (PD) driven?

You dont necessarily need 2 machines to power this. But the output is devininetly smoother. Scratch Live pretty much enslaves the system to ensure clean and continuous playback of the audio. This affects all other applications running on the system. Even moving windows can seem a bit laggy when using scratch live.
The Raspberry Pi or any other small machine inside a turntable is the way to go. Displaying the waveform would be a problem, because resources are very limited.
Also, before starting such a thing it's better to check with the community if they would actually use or want such a thing.

People may then complain though that the DJ is just looking down all the time?

Excellent point, you will not be able to actually stop this behavior because DJ's perform with the turntables. It would be like forbidding a piano player to look at the keys. But what we can actually do is to reduce the time someone spends looking at the screen (or record in this case) by providing visual aids.

[DubluW]

It would mean a whole new turntable system, but a projection from underneath would solve having a projector hanging above you.

[MrPopinjay]

I still think something like this would be a nice alternative to a big bright laptop screen.

Actually, with Ubuntu for mobile/tablets coming out I quite like the idea of getting xwax working on something like a Nexus 7 tablet and then having it sit on top of the mixer, both acting as a little compact display and powering the digital vinyl. Could even incorporate some touch gestures into the interface

[Bonzo]

It would mean a whole new turntable system, but a projection from underneath would solve having a projector hanging above you.

Thats correct, but imagine if you want to transport such a system. It would be a whole table, even if you are using mirrors to reduce the height.

[djproben]

Also, before starting such a thing it's better to check with the community if they would actually use or want such a thing.

Well, this would be a niche product at best; I can't imagine them selling these like dicers or X1s or whatever. Personally I think it's an amazing project, but it's not really a solution to "serato face" -- the only real solution to that is for the DJ to learn to use their ears like we all did when we didn't have computers in the club at all. Seeing the waveform is helpful but not essential to playing recorded music whether it's on mp3 or vinyl; and I'm not sure this would help with needle drops or anything like that since only a part of the waveform can be visible at a time, and the image couldn't be precise with the record grooves to tell you where to put the needle - so it really doesn't give you the kind of visual feedback you have with regular vinyl. Again, not putting this down at all, I think this is an amazing project and I'd enjoy playing around with this system, but I couldn't possibly see myself throwing a thousand dollars at a turntable with a builtin waveform display.