Redlining - how bad is it?

[the_bastet]

Brake/backspin, talk a little bit, and reset the floor. The dance floor shuffling around/cooling off a bit for a minute isn't going to ruin anyone's night if it's done smoothly.

This. Take the time to build hype within the crowd. A couple minutes of downtime for people to go grab drinks is not gonna cause any complaints.

[Serbman9]

The big issue starts at sound chek (if there even is one), generally when I play or am running sound I start with the Dj pushing out almost a maxed out signal but just below clipping (red) then so do the same on my board. This way The DJ has all the headroom in the world and dosn't start clipping the mixing board inputs half way through the set when things start to turn up. Gain structure is crucial once you start playing on bigger systems. Clipped out sound distorted, is harder on the ear and overdrives the sound system, generally there are a lot retards out there who don't have a clue and end up with shitty sound due to their ignorance.

[P4ULSON]

There are really only 2 scenarios that explain why ANYONE would ever be running the reds.

1) You think that louder is better. Not only are you the DJ, but you're also the sound engineer. You've taken it upon yourself to make sure the club is as loud as possible, completely disregarding the fact that you did not set up the sound system.

2) You're playing after one of the aforementioned "DJs" and can't drop lord knows how many dB to save the DJ mixer/sound system without killing the energy in the club.

I find myself in scenario #2 quite often and with the sound engineer nowhere to be found. In my 12 years of DJing, I've only ever spoken to the sound engineer maybe 5x. Those were the best sounding shows I've ever played. They made sure that as long as I was playing at a medium level (2-3 yellow/orange) that they'd have me nice and loud on the PA.

yea this is how i find myself alot.... Wack ass opener dj's running +6db then when i get on im like uh... then become one of them lol

There's another problem that nobody on here has mentioned yet; some clubs actually TELL you to set all the gains to max, simply because their amps are set too low for you to have acceptable volume, and they can't be bothered to go into whatever distant room the amps are in to crank them up.

Yea the first time this happen to me it felt so wrong hahah. I was like are u sure my shit bangs!!! lol there like we got compressors and limiters and i smiled there just lucky i analyzed all my tracks and use autogain set at -92db

turn up the booth monitor if you can't hear yourself. stay at 0db and if it's not loud enough its not your fault redlining is terrible. that is all

[mostapha]

Been there. What are you meant to do when it's set up like that when you jump on?

If there's a sound guy you can talk to, figure out how to coordinate it. If not, deal with it. And by that, I mean just play through it.

IMHO, though, it's a good idea to tell someone if you can. Blowing a sound system can get expensive, espeically when you add all the unsold drinks, potentially refunded tickets, and lost reputation to the equipment costs. I'd want to make sure I at least had something resembling a verbal acknowledgement that I wasn't at fault.

[mdcdesign]

I had a related - although different - situation last night. Turned up at the venue to play (it's a pub which gets converted into a sort of chill-out room for the main venue at night), and there was no PA whatsoever in place. The DJ I was covering for normally rigs it himself with gear the club provides. So I went upstairs, sorted out what gear I needed, and lugged it downstairs with the help of the manager. Plugged everything in, set all the levels appropriately, and it sounded wank.

No redlining, no clipping or anything like that (was checking the meters on the soundboard and the amp the entire way through); was just a case of crap speakers. Spent about 30 minutes fiddling with the EQ trying to get something more reasonable out of it, to no avail, so eventually just decided "screw it", and just got on with the mixing. Half way through, the volume randomly dropped significantly, and all of a sudden the balance was MUCH better. I went over to investigate, and realised that one of the speakers woofer had cut out completely; horn tweeter still going strong, hence the better treble/bass balance between the two speakers combined (the other one had a duff/rattly horn).

So I went over and told the manager, and we tried swapping out the duff speaker with a new one, which was ALSO duff. At that point, we called it a night and packed up. I was worried I'd get a bollocking for blowing up one of the speakers, but I made it clear I'd kept all the levels well below redline and his response was just that the speakers were crap and it was only a matter of time before they went. Luckily, I still got paid.

I suppose the moral of the story is, even when you're not redlining, stuff can still break, but it's less likely you'll get blamed for it lol.

[thepanache]

There's another problem that nobody on here has mentioned yet; some clubs actually TELL you to set all the gains to max, simply because their amps are set too low for you to have acceptable volume, and they can't be bothered to go into whatever distant room the amps are in to crank them up.

Couldn't agree more.

[thepanache]

The club amp should be doing the work, not the mixer.

Stepping into the booth after another DJ and dropping the volume really kills the vibe.

I play a regular set bi-weekly in a bar/club and have to blast the levels high into the red, gain at 3'o clock and full master.. Just because they refuse to adjust the amp. Apparently it's limited by the council?!

I don't know if the council thing is true but never the less.. Sound quality should always be top of the list of priorities and especially with smaller clubs/bars/venues without sound engineers, the management need to really step up and understand how good sound management really effects the venue..

A bad rig/set-up can be extremely off putting for punters and DJ's alike.

[makar1]

If it's a modern digital mixer it could easily still be well within headroom depending on the settings. It could be their way of reducing the risk of damage to the system without having to rely on a brick-wall limiter when someone turns up the gains too high.

The amps don't do more or less "work" if you use a loud or quiet signal (at the same output volume). The volume dial on the amp simply attenuates the input signal.

[mdcdesign]

The club amp should be doing the work, not the mixer.

Stepping into the booth after another DJ and dropping the volume really kills the vibe.

I play a regular set bi-weekly in a bar/club and have to blast the levels high into the red, gain at 3'o clock and full master.. Just because they refuse to adjust the amp. Apparently it's limited by the council?!

I don't know if the council thing is true but never the less.. Sound quality should always be top of the list of priorities and especially with smaller clubs/bars/venues without sound engineers, the management need to really step up and understand how good sound management really effects the venue..

A bad rig/set-up can be extremely off putting for punters and DJ's alike.

If a venue isn't going to take an active role in the sound side of things, then what they need to do is set the amp at the loudest possible volume (with the mixer on full-whack) to both a) avoid clipping, and b) avoid damage to the speakers. Then - as the DJ - when doing your soundcheck you take cues from the management as to the desired volume. They can always indicate "higher" or "lower" during the night, which you can then adjust YOURSELF on the mixer - all without any "forced" clipping to attain the required volume.

[031999]

So let me try to sum up a few things for my own education. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I've played clubs and parties for a few years now, but never on my own system. Well I just started doing mobiles, I have two double 15" + tweeter cabs. Sending 1500w apiece, speakers are rated properly and the amp is matched. So last week I did a gig with 200 people my amps were at about level 7 and my mixer was certainly not clipping but was definitely really loud. But the amp was clipping like a mofo, showing me red on the limiter and sounding like shit. Now I'm sure that system should be plenty for that crowd, but it felt like I had to start maxing stuff out to be heard. Should I have taken my amp to the max? Turned down my mixer a bit, get a bigger system?? Haha idk