Hip hop acapellas and copyright

[Patch]

i definitely WOULD be surprised.

[ImNoDJ]

i definitely WOULD be surprised.

This has happened many times Patch. Im surprised youre not aware of this.

The reason you dont hear much about it anymore is that literally no one publishes music without cleared samples any more.

See the Verve/Rolling Stones disaster. They didnt clear the string sample (from a RS song) in Bittersweet symphony, and they never saw a dime of that song. It made tens of millions of dollars for the Rolling Stones.

So yes, its incredibly unlikely but as said upthread, publishers wont generally take a track with an uncleared sample if they have any idea what they are doing.

[Patch]

A guy on a forum sampling for fun is not the same as an established band using un-cleared samples.

No-one on this forum is playing by the same rules as The Verve!

[the_bastet]

If clearing a sample makes you 20 bucks. 20 bucks is 20 bucks. It may not be millions....

If you don't think 20 bucks is worth the extra effort, then you can give me your 20 bucks. I would love an extra 20 bucks.

[Kwal]

I've had success clearing samples. Was very easy actually. One email and you're done.

[ImNoDJ]

A guy on a forum sampling for fun is not the same as an established band using un-cleared samples.

No-one on this forum is playing by the same rules as The Verve!

If he releases a song with uncleared samples, its literally exactly the same. If it blows up, do you think the original rights holders are going to ignore it? At that point its too late to clear them, and he will lose all royalties. We are only talking about releasing it, not playing it live.

There are whole legal firms that do nothing but look for and report these uncleared samples in the hope of getting a retainer out of it.

Now Dangermouse actually used this mechanism when he released the Grey album, knowing full well that Sony would lodge a cease and desist immediately, which they did. He used the publicity from this to lanch his career, even though he couldnt make any money from the Grey album.

[Patch]

That is a fuckin' HUGE "if".

Posts like yours prevent creative people being creative!!! "If it blows up?" That's a HUGE "if".

What if it DOESN'T blow up, but the kid learns a TON from making it, and a bunch of his friends really like the track? That's a lot of personal development that he'll miss out on if he doesn't put in the work with a sample that he/she loves.

I like your DM scenario - but I'd use that as an argument FOR using uncleared samples.

Established artists (like The Verve) SHOULD clear samples - they're financially benefiting DIRECTLY from someone elses IPR. BUT, kids learning to produce should sample the hell out of anything they want! 99.9% of those kids will go nowhere (unfortunately), but they'll get a great deal of pleasure and personal development from sampling relentlessly.

[the_bastet]

That's a lot of personal development that he'll miss out on if he doesn't put in the work with a sample that he/she loves.

He can also learn how to get samples cleared in the process......

[Patch]

There's only si much fun that some people can handle, though...

[ImNoDJ]

That is a fuckin' HUGE "if".

Posts like yours prevent creative people being creative!!! "If it blows up?" That's a HUGE "if".

Sorry Patch, You are simply giving bad and dangerous advice here. You and I have only heard of the Verve because of Bittersweet Symphony. Before they released it they were just a local band that thought no one would care if they released a song with uncleared samples.

Are you getting it now? Thats only the biggest example, there are many many others. Dont you realise that practically every single hip hop album released nowadays on anything larger than a one man label has every single sample cleared? That there is an industry out there looking for these copyright violations to pounce on?

Your advice is completely out of step with modern industry standards Im afraid.

This has nothing whatsoever to with creativity. We are talking about RELEASING and PUBLISHING songs. There is nothing stopping OP from playing it out live or giving it to his friends. This is the third time ive said this, so stop misrepresenting me as if im telling him not to do it at all.

Oh and Dangermouse was LUCKY. Sony had the right and ability to take literally everything he had, and decided not to.