New Behringer NOX Mixers

[rawwwr]

As you said on this post, and on the other post, it must be awesome o.O
Is it better than a Xone 92?, if it's maybe I'll get one ^^

[BlackJesus]

It's funny because this same conversation is constantly going on over at the guitar forums about behinger's efx pedals. Too many snobs on the internet corrupting the opinions of the young and innocent if you ask me I've used their efx pedals and despite what most say on the forums I really enjoyed them. They are a cheap and very good alternative (this coming from a guy who has spent waaaaaaay more on pedals than he should)
I've used the expensive "handmade boutique" gear and the crappy run of mill stuff and in the end I use them both.

Anyways to end my rant I'd like to warn you all that no matter what gear you're researching (be it Dj, guitar, etc.) there are going to be snobs around every corner and their opinions are not worth 2 shits. Although the only thing worse than the snobs are the people who read their posts and magically form opinions on gear they have never had first hand experience with.

Disclaimer: This post was not directed to nor referencing anyone on these boards.

[Shishdisma]

It's funny because this same conversation is constantly going on over at the guitar forums about behinger's efx pedals. Too many snobs on the internet corrupting the opinions of the young and innocent if you ask me I've used their efx pedals and despite what most say on the forums I really enjoyed them. They are a cheap and very good alternative (this coming from a guy who has spent waaaaaaay more on pedals than he should)
I've used the expensive "handmade boutique" gear and the crappy run of mill stuff and in the end I use them both.

Anyways to end my rant I'd like to warn you all that no matter what gear you're researching (be it Dj, guitar, etc.) there are going to be snobs around every corner and their opinions are not worth 2 shits. Although the only thing worse than the snobs are the people who read their posts and magically form opinions on gear they have never had first hand experience with.

Disclaimer: This post was not directed to nor referencing anyone on these boards.

See, the problem with that statement is that those "snobs" happen to be professionals, who have a bar expectation of quality. Look at every single professional audio company, Rane, JBL, QSC, Pioneer, A&H, SSL, F1, the list goes on: not one single one of those companies markets themselves or sells products based on a spec sheet relative to a low cost. This is because those "snobs," or rather professionals, have never purchased a product based on "all the things it can do," but rather, "how well does it do what it does, and how reliable is it?"

The professional audio world doesn't care about a crammed feature list, they care about the quality of the features offered, because a crammed list is absolutely worthless if the features delivered don't actually deliver, at any price point. This has been Behringer's failing in the professional market for a very long time, they always play the features over price model, this isn't an inherent failure in the consumer market, because consumers only care about lots of shineys; but to high end markets, the features over price sales model falls on deaf ears, while the bargain-bin build and skimped out quality end up being break points.

[BlackJesus]

See, the problem with that statement is that those "snobs" happen to be professionals

Trust me if you knew who I was referring to I'm sure you would feel very different about what I just said. These "snobs" I am talking about are by no means professionals.... or at least in most cases. Top of the line gear is always going to be preferred by most but my argument here is against people who take low priced gear at face value and blast the boards with opinions about gear they have never touched because "so and so" says they are garbage.

Honestly there is allot of junk out there (in all price points) but I personally never take someone else's opinion about studio gear to heart. Yes it can guide you in the right direction but in the past I've missed out on and been let down by allot of equipment. See the thing about audio is it can be so subjective and dynamic that something that works for some can let down others despite the price or reputation. But I'm no expert and I accept that. In the end all I have are my opinions and my keyboard

Now build quality on the other hand............

[nem0nic]

This has been Behringer's failing in the professional market for a very long time, they always play the features over price model, this isn't an inherent failure in the consumer market, because consumers only care about lots of shineys; but to high end markets, the features over price sales model falls on deaf ears, while the bargain-bin build and skimped out quality end up being break points.

First of all, best run on sentence in a DJ forum ever. Even longer than the preamble to the US Constitution. Kudos.

Second, your statement is ridiculous. You're pushing 2 ideas here...
(1) Only "professionals" buy M.I. gear
and
(2) No professionals use Behringer gear.

Both of these assumptions are incorrect. First, the BIGGEST growth market for M.I is the beginner market. For every person out there that needs an EAW sound system, there are a thousand that need a couple B215Ds on stands. It doesn't make a lot of sense for that guy to go out and blow a few grand on what is essentially a hobby. And here's another fun fact. The difference between low and high priced gear is not what it used to be. Second, LOTS OF PROFESSIONALS USE BEHRINGER GEAR. You go to any backline provider and you'll see Behringer in LOTS of those racks. In the DJ world, off the top of my head I know that Daft Punk and Tim Exile both use Behringer MIDI controllers to play out. I could probably find more if I spent a little time Googling it.

A hair over 40% of the mixers sold have the Behringer brand on them. That DJX700/750 DJ mixer that was mentioned before - it's the best selling DJ mixer EVER MADE (there are just under half a million of them out in the world now). Behringer has over 500 products, and has been in business for 25 years. They not only own their own factory, they're currently building a new (bigger) one. The new X32 mixer has been nominated for a TEC award. Say what you will, it looks like they must be doing something right.

[Shishdisma]

First of all, best run on sentence in a DJ forum ever. Even longer than the preamble to the US Constitution. Kudos.

Second, your statement is ridiculous. You're pushing 2 ideas here...
(1) Only "professionals" buy M.I. gear
and
(2) No professionals use Behringer gear.

Both of these assumptions are incorrect. First, the BIGGEST growth market for M.I is the beginner market. For every person out there that needs an EAW sound system, there are a thousand that need a couple B215Ds on stands. It doesn't make a lot of sense for that guy to go out and blow a few grand on what is essentially a hobby. And here's another fun fact. The difference between low and high priced gear is not what it used to be. Second, LOTS OF PROFESSIONALS USE BEHRINGER GEAR. You go to any backline provider and you'll see Behringer in LOTS of those racks. In the DJ world, off the top of my head I know that Daft Punk and Tim Exile both use Behringer MIDI controllers to play out. I could probably find more if I spent a little time Googling it.

A hair over 40% of the mixers sold have the Behringer brand on them. That DJX700/750 DJ mixer that was mentioned before - it's the best selling DJ mixer EVER MADE (there are just under half a million of them out in the world now). Behringer has over 500 products, and has been in business for 25 years. They not only own their own factory, they're currently building a new (bigger) one. The new X32 mixer has been nominated for a TEC award. Say what you will, it looks like they must be doing something right.

All you've proven is that people BUY Behringer gear, and I guess that's kind of your paid profession to do so. It's really curious that you use sales metrics as an indication of the quality of products sold. You're using the massively fallacious assumption that "people are patronizing it, so it must be pretty awesome." By that logic, Walmart must hold boutique quality by pure sales metrics, but you discount the position of market position. People buy your equipment for the express reason that it's cheap and feature loaded, because consumers rarely look past a spec sheet and checkout total, this is in no way an indication of the quality of the equipment sold.

Its rather interesting you bring up the X32 as a professional grade product, considering it's a budget-consious Chinese knockoff of the GLD, with a "good enough for the price" sticker firmly placed on the front of the marketing. Im sure Allen and Heath are just quaking in their shoes...

I realize it's your paid profession to reinforce your company's marketing, so I don't expect a response that doesn't echo corporate promotion.

[nem0nic]

You're using the massively fallacious assumption that "people are patronizing it, so it must be pretty awesome." By that logic, Walmart must hold boutique quality by pure sales metrics, but you discount the position of market position

This isn't quite right. I never said anything about boutique quality. My point here is that there is a place for all kinds of product. This holds true in all product categories. You imply that nothing is worth buying unless it's high end gear, and obviously that isn't true. And to that end, I can use sales metrics as a guide. If there wasn't a market for Behringer gear, no one would be buying it. This isn't corporate promotion - it's just simple logic. It's great to be Rolls Royce, but there's also room for Toyota. And when it comes to accomplishing the task the product was built for, I don't think most people find that the price of a Rolls is worth the difference in performance between it and the Toyota.

I realize it's your paid profession to reinforce your company's marketing, so I don't expect a response that doesn't echo corporate promotion.

My paid profession is to design products. That's it. Before that I was a professional audio engineer (15 years) and DJ (25 years). I understand that you're using that experience as a pejorative, but what exactly is your experience and qualifications? I've proven through years of helping the online DJ community that I might have something to bring to the table, and I've put that experience into products you can walk into a store right now and buy. I understand it's a convenient crutch to try and shut me down in this way just because I politely disagree with you. But if you're going to go down this path, I think it's fair to know what experience YOU bring to this conversation.

[rawwwr]

That DJX700/750 DJ mixer that was mentioned before - it's the best selling DJ mixer EVER MADE (there are just under half a million of them out in the world now).

It that was for me, well, I wish that the other people who bought it had better luck, because I had really bad luck, I'm not saying it's the worst mark ever, but well, I'm not a happy custommer, that's all
I used to use on the disco I was resident on Spain a Xone92, so that's why I bought it, because I really liked it.
And this happened to me even when I was really happy when I bought the Xone22, and the power supply was really bad and it just break after some months, it's not only a problem from Behringer, a lot of other marks have the problem too.

As dessigner, can you please, explain me the internal differences between a Xone92 and a DDM4000?

Thank you

[nem0nic]

As dessigner, can you please, explain me the internal differences between a Xone92 and a DDM4000?

The biggest difference between the two is that the Xone92 is an analog mixer and the DDM4000 is a digital mixer. In a digital mixer, all audio handling is typically done via DSP (on a chip) instead of analog circuitry. This means that digital mixers are usually less mechanically complex than their analog counterparts. And because they require less power, the PSU is usually lighter as well.

Functionally, there is a HUGE difference between the 2 as well. The DDM4000 is capable of a ton of audio processing. This not only manifests itself in the obvious - things like effects - but also in the capability to do things like alter the EQ frequency and Q for a given band. It also sends MIDI for most of the available controls.

[rawwwr]

The biggest difference between the two is that the Xone92 is an analog mixer and the DDM4000 is a digital mixer. In a digital mixer, all audio handling is typically done via DSP (on a chip) instead of analog circuitry. This means that digital mixers are usually less mechanically complex than their analog counterparts. And because they require less power, the PSU is usually lighter as well.

Functionally, there is a HUGE difference between the 2 as well. The DDM4000 is capable of a ton of audio processing. This not only manifests itself in the obvious - things like effects - but also in the capability to do things like alter the EQ frequency and Q for a given band. It also sends MIDI for most of the available controls.

So, the conclussion is:
Using the DDM4000 I have more features, it's easier to get the pieces to repair it, and it will offer me also a controller, right?
The only thing I don't like of it right now, is the headphone input, I preffer when it's near the base of the mixer, but I'll give it a try for sure!
Thanks for your help! *w*

It's funny, we ended talking about DDM4000 instead of the Nox misers lol o.O