Why so much hate for digital?

[dope]

its SOUNDS GOOD, then who cares?

Ok what comes out of the master output is important. But believe it or not, appearence and image has a lot to do in DJing too. Takes times to understand and to accept (and that doesn't mean you are in favor of it) but that's how it is, and you have to deal with it.

As good as you might be, show up with a hercule controller in the booth, i'll think that you are bad/not serious/not professionnal/bad.
I'm sorry (really), and i'm wrong to assume about someone skills judging by their equipment, but i won't be wrong in 99% of the cases. Maybe you are the 1%. Too bad for you. (world sucks i know, i figured this out recently)

[WEEDNIRVANA]

i'm wrong to assume about someone skills judging by their equipment, but i won't be wrong in 99% of the cases.

In this case you'd be right. I suck, my gear sucks. We are the 99%. Occupy DJTT.

Although, I am a firm believer in the gear doesn't make the DJ, the DJ makes the gear.

[dope]

Yes, in the facts.
But when i say appearence, i'm talking about the first 10 seconds in the booth, and you know how important is the first glance. Some people can be so narrowminded that they will have their idea on you based on these 5 first seconds and won't even listen carefully to what's going out of the master output. (I'm like that to some degree, i'll have a opinion on you after 5 seconds but will still listen to the mix )
Because expensive gear means in a way : dedication, passion, involvement, seriousness, knows what's good...

We can assume that : (and that's true in 99% of the cases as i said)
Controller -> Cheap -> New to DJing -> Not a good DJ

But nowadays many people take a shortcut and simply state that :
Controller -> Not a good DJ


I'm not proud of how i judge people in the booth, and by spending time here i saw that some guys with controllers can do way better than what i can do (even if they use sync , just kidding), and here on DJTT i saw the 1%.

What i can say is that : Do you own business, play the music you love, show you skills, and prove them that they were wrong about controllerists

We are the 99%. Occupy DJTT.

PS : And don't think that DVS/Timecode user are taken as standard vinyl/CD DJ. We also have people spitting on us when we enter the booth with a Audio 10 and and MacBook. Less than a guy with a VCI or anything, but still.

Time will tell how does the vision people have of digital DJing evolves.

[DJSigma]

If he's using a Hercules or a Mixtrack or whatever and its SOUNDS GOOD, then who cares?

I agree with this generally.

That said, having spent a lot of time on forums talking to DJs and listening to their mixes, I can see why some people do judge others by the equipment they use because if they use certain equipment, the chance of them being crap is simply greater in my experience.

There are some people who want to become DJs cos it's "cool", it "gets them chicks" or whatever. Those sort of people often look for the cheapest and easiest way to get into it, so you don't see those people with 1200s and a Rane, or CDJs and a Pioneer.

It's bad to generalise though. The reason digital gets so much hate is because people generalise. That is why I would always reserve judgement until I've spoken to a DJ, heard their mixes, seen them perform. Assuming that every digital DJ with a particular controller is crap is like assuming that every DJ that owns Technics 1200s and a mixer is great and that's just silly.

[MaxOne]

^ well said man.

It may sound messed up, but I do agree there is a big difference between seeing a guy on a hercules or a guy on two X1's and Xone mixer.

It's true. I'd have more "respect" for someone on a single x1, an audio 2 with the club mixer on external mode than a hercules.

I'm still on my VCI SE Arcade which i feel is almost an exception because it's a custom built controller with true soul built in. But would only use this for bar gigs / weddings / etc

If I was guesting or even warming up somewhere biggish i'd probs go for DVS + x1 or just burn CDs.

Truthfully I would want to look as pro as possible in front of other pros

Sad innit.

[mostapha]

Ive seen him do this. Its pretty funny..........once.

Funny is the right word, not good. I probably would have walked out unless there's a very good reason to stay. I couldn't even make it through the video.

Note: From here on out, I'm basing my argument on Club DJing, not crappy sports bars with a sound system, not house parties, not mobile work…the're all different from what I'm trying to get across.

Now…

About the cheap controllers, not everyone can afford to decide they would like to try digital djing and drop $800-900 on an S4 same day like I read about people doing so much on here.

Why not? My first setup was around a grand.

The thing is that you don't have to own all the equipment. You're choosing to own it, and you're choosing the bare minimum.

If you missed it before DJF went down, I'm sorry, but there were a lot of people who had a similar story, "I was going to clubs, and I started talking to the DJs," or "One of my friends spun and I asked him to show me his decks," or "I just got thrown in the deep end 'cuz a friend needed a DJ and I knew how to plug things in."

Buying your own equipment because you think DJing might be fun is a relatively new phenomenon, as is bringing it to clubs. I played on a friend's decks before I bought mine. I knew I wanted to do it before I spent the money. Saving up a grand isn't that hard…you just have to be willing to do it.

Now, you don't have to save up a grand for entry level gear. You just need to already own a computer, which most people do. It doesn't even have to be a particularly nice computer. And you probably need that computer just to buy tracks at this point anyway. A couple hundred gets you started, and that's genuinely awesome.

There comes a point when taking it seriously means investing in better equipment than the bare minimum.

Anyway…so a hypothetical wanna-be DJ buys a cheap all-in-one controller like the hercules rmx and learns some stuff…maybe he gets a booking of some kind and shows up with his little console toy thing and the promoter goes, "WTF? I have $6000 worth of gear sitting on the table in front of this guy, and he's using this cheap plasticy "baby's first DJ booth"-looking…thing?" He asks, "what's with the controller?"

What's he supposed to say?

"It's all the same thing."
"This is better."
"I can't mix on your equipment."

In any case, what he hears is "I don't take this as seriously as you do," which immediately translates into "I'm a business liability."

He can't even get away with "The software can do more than the CDJs, and I like to take advantage of that," because promoters probably don't care. If they do, they know what good software is and how it works, and they know that he could be using their CDJs as control surfaces or with time code…he's just not.

Instead, he's using something that's sold at Best buy next to off-brand $70 Stratocaster clones and keyboards that light up to tell you which keys to press. The only reason it's not in the toy section is that Best Buy is better at branding than Hercules is.

Seriously…that's what's going through their heads. It's not that they hate controllers, it's that it takes a lot of ground work to get to the point where an S4 doesn't look like "one of those hercules things" to a lot of people. And arguing that the hercules things are good just damages the S4 users' reputations. Sorry. That's how I see it.

Anyway…for the vast majority of what I've seen in clubs, the club still provides decent equipment because something like 90% of gigging club DJs use CDJs or USB sticks. It costs almost nothing to buy a pair of 16GB memory sticks and plug them into the CDJs if they have new ones…it costs almost nothing but time to burn a wallet full of CDs and bring those.

I mean…seriously. Traktor is pretty cool and all, but if you have the chance to play on nice gear, why would you choose an intro-level piece of kit, especially when there's better equipment sitting right there in front of you the majority of the time?

If you really like your S4, cool. I really like X1s for what they are, and I love being able to sync Maschine to Traktor and not think about keeping a groove box in sync for an entire set. And my stuff is still a lot cheaper than a top-end Pioneer CDJ setup with fewer capabilities. I obviously understand the controller thing.

And if I'm just listening to mixes that I find online, I don't give a shit what it was recorded with. I don't even really care if it was done live. Use pitch 'n' time and Pro Tools for all I care. Use audacity and a calculator…whatever you want.

But if you're gigging, I think you need to be invested in what you're doing, and having equipment that's above the "not crap" threshold is a very good first step towards convincing everyone else to take you–and all of us–seriously.

Bringing up fisher price turntables and saying "it's all about what comes out of the speakers," certainly doesn't help.

I don't think DJing is a skill that should be reserved only for the wealthy. Saying that a DJ should have invested a certain amount of money into their equipment to be taken seriously - especially if they're just playing for $80 a night or something - seems arbitrary and kind of elitist.

Agreed. But it's worth accepting that there are levels of seriousness to be considered. And to some extent, all I'm talking about not cutting it is the absolute bottom end of controllers…the things that try to replicate an entire DJ booth for $200 and skimp on everything doing it. I wouldn't look at someone on a VCI-100 and just walk out. There's a difference even there.

It's not limiting DJing to the wealthy. It's cutting out the people who aren't willing to put anything into what they're trying to do.

My one reservation about X1s is that I think they're too cheap. They feel fine, and I can't really think of how to make them better, but it still amazes me. I'm pretty sure I bought the second one not because I needed it or wanted to spin with 4 decks but because it felt so weird just having one little $200 thing and a mixer replicate what I used to do with turntables.

Oh, and $80 won't convince me to bring my computer…let alone the rest of my gear. If I'm spinning for $80 a night, they're providing everything but media and headphones. It's not worth the risk to my stuff.

[fanny butter]

Ok what comes out of the master output is important. But believe it or not, appearence and image has a lot to do in DJing too. Takes times to understand and to accept (and that doesn't mean you are in favor of it) but that's how it is, and you have to deal with it.

As good as you might be, show up with a hercule controller in the booth, i'll think that you are bad/not serious/not professionnal/bad.
I'm sorry (really), and i'm wrong to assume about someone skills judging by their equipment, but i won't be wrong in 99% of the cases. Maybe you are the 1%. Too bad for you. (world sucks i know, i figured this out recently)

bro. you have cdj350s ffs. THE crappiest cdjs of the pioneer line. A full base model pioneer djm and cdj setup screams noob far more than a guy with a controller, laptop and a soundcard....

These days I'm actually interested in seeing something different in the booth. 2 cdj djs are a fucking snore fest.

[haze324]

Here, if a bar/lounge has music and they don't have a DJ, the bartender's iPod is plugged in. Playlists, shuffle, party shuffle, whatever…that level of "I just want some good music" makes complete sense to me.

Agree. But......the ONLY reason is crowd reading. For example, this past Saturday I played during the day at The Clevelander Pool on South Beach. If you been on Ocean Drive you know this place. It's a huge tourist attraction pool/bar spot. The poolside install is a DJM-900, 2 CDJ-2000's, 2 TT 1210's, and an SL3. I played mid day when a bunch of eagles fans were in town for the dolphins game.

Really I could've played the same set on a VCI-300 because these people just wanted the Miami Experience of being on South Beach and have some solid tunes to listen to while having a drink ---- but I WOULD BE CRAZY to show up with a VCI 300 or any other controller when the house has invested THIS MUCH money on an install.

That's what you guys don't get. For those that say if it sounds good "who cares" the Club Cares and they are paying!! They just dropped THOUSANDS of dollars to intall a system they trust won't fail and I'm going to show up with a 400 dollar mixer with colorful lights. No way fellas.

edit: just saw your long post. +100 on the house installs being a huge reason, and if I saw a VCI-100 I would think, cool the guy is on DJTT he does his HW. I heard a guy last WMC week on two X1's and a Fader Fox at a hotel on South Beach playing a really good set. Obviously that's not bottom end stuff.

[fanny butter]

I think you assume too much. I really don't think even the promoter would care what you played on during a freakin day event at some standard miami pool venue... As long as there were plenty of roided up douchebags fist pumping and drinking.

[keithace]

These days I'm actually interested in seeing something different in the booth. 2 cdj djs are a fucking snore fest.

depends who is playing...