advantages of external mixer over s4?

[Xonetacular]

Whenever I hear that arguement about Traktor effects I cringe especially when people start saying how they can tell its a Traktor effect and they just sound too digital. All effects are digital unless you are recording in a chamber to get that "chamber" echo. 35 years ago there were major differences in cheap effects to professional studio effects. Now in 2012, does the same type of effect sound different on different units, sure but it doesn't make it crap, just different and Traktor effects are every bit professional as (cue the angel in heaven music) the DB4.

No, they don't. Traktor's effects sound like traktor's effects.

Not all digital fx engines are created equal. Just like how you can get VST effects that don't sound great and you can get fancy plugins that sound phenomenal. Run Traktor's 12 as a VST and then try to compare the sound of those delays to the delays of something like a Waves plugin. Just because two things are digital doesn't mean they are on the same level. We're not talking about stuff like cables here.

[keeb]

Yes the sound is still processed by Traktor. The point is that it sends a mostly clean signal to the mixer when you mix externally, hence the point of using classic eq when externally mixing to avoid Traktor's sound coloration; which then allows the mixer to process the sound in terms of EQing, volume control, etc. Even if it's not actually a limitation with the technology, the fact is that Traktor's mixer does not sound as good to my ears as a professional quality mixer (xone 92, db4, DJM 900, etc.) so maybe the answer is that Traktor just sounds like a mid-grade mixer. It's subjective, but the point here is that mixing in Traktor does not sound as good as mixing with an external, quality mixer. Given the relative price points, this should not be surprising. Sure with software you're using an expensive laptop as well to balance out the pricing somewhat, but laptops are not exclusively designed for processing sound - mixers are. So, logically you probably have to make some sacrifices when sound is not your sole priority.

As per your point about the effects, yes, I would say Traktor's effects are professional. That being said, they still don't sound as pleasing to the ear as the DJM 900 or the DB4. I'm not saying Traktor's internal mixing and effects are worthless, just that they're generally not quite as good. It's not a night and day difference and it's not something that I would say, "don't even think about using the internal mixer when you're gigging!" However, there is a difference, it is pronounced, and it is worth looking into if you can afford to.

You are right about the HDMI cable as far as I'm aware. Thing is though, digital cables don't process sound, and the discussion at hand is talking about products that do.

[Cusp]

As a point of interest, I'd like to know what Xonetacular's playback rate is on Traktor. ALSO, (Xonetacular) are you comparing MP3s to Raw Audio (off a CD). Certainly Bit Rate and Bit Depth have a lot to do with how effects sound but unless you're comparing two identical tests, the results will be skewed.

At least compare a FLAC file to a Raw Audio file (using these effects) and make sure your Traktor audio settings are as good (equal) as possible before making these judgements because effects in Traktor get applied at the sample rate which is what led me to believe you're comparing two different sample rates.

I'm not telling you (or anyone else) that the way you want to do something is bad unless you're trying to convince other people that your way is right when you have little-to-no foundation in facts for them. Everything else (except plugging into the main in and most clubs have mixers you can do that with anyway) you've listed as "Reasons why" are really personal choices.

[keeb]

The S4 and traktor's mixer are by no means bad and traktor's mixer sounds decent, but they leave a lot to be desired and can't touch a decent hardware mixer.

This, I think, is the key. It really is hard to appreciate the difference until you hear it for yourself in person with good speakers.

And DigitalTiger, the points Xone and I have made are not about personal choices. They're real points with legitimate value. How much you value them may be less than we do, but that doesn't make them irrelevant.

Discussions like this often lead into emotional responses from those who have not experienced both sides of the debate, which then lead to fanboyism and fanatical defense of one's own equipment. I'm not saying that's happened here, but we should take care to avoid it in order to keep this thread from being locked.

[keeb]

nicely said..

Thank you.

[Xonetacular]

Yes the sound is still processed by Traktor. The point is that it sends a mostly clean signal to the mixer when you mix externally, hence the point of using classic eq when externally mixing to avoid Traktor's sound coloration; which then allows the mixer to process the sound in terms of EQing, volume control, etc. Even if it's not actually a limitation with the technology, the fact is that Traktor's mixer does not sound as good to my ears as a professional quality mixer (xone 92, db4, DJM 900, etc.)

Exactly.

As per your point about the effects, yes, I would say Traktor's effects are professional. That being said, they still don't sound as pleasing to the ear as the DJM 900 or the DB4. I'm not saying Traktor's internal mixing and effects are worthless, just that they're generally not quite as good. It's not a night and day difference and it's not something that I would say, "don't even think about using the internal mixer when you're gigging!" However, there is a difference, it is pronounced, and it is worth looking into if you can afford to.

You are right about the HDMI cable as far as I'm aware. Thing is though, digital cables don't process sound, and the discussion at hand is talking about products that do.

Right on again. Traktor's effects are not bad, I would not hesitate to use them if I didn't have something better, and there are some in there I really like, but they don't compare to high end VSTs or high end digital mixers- particularly the db2 and db4.

[Cusp]

I own an S4 and have found myself looking into purchasing a DJM 800 for a few reasons.

- Like Xone said... The mixer feels like a toy compared to high-end mixers
- Post-Fader effects
- VU-Meters


However, don't get me wrong. I love my S4 and plan on keeping for portable use.

If the faders feel like a toy, then you can get replacements like the Innofader.

[coupon]

wow alot of discussion here. before deciding to learn how to dj, i did a bit of sound engineering for venues and bands. this same discussion came into play when digital mixing boards started to become more popular. everyone agreed that analog boards sounded way better but the functionality of digital boards was well worth the compromise.

now in terms of my own usage, i'm more than happy with the sound quality the s4/traktor set up offers compared to some of the lower end controllers. i wanted to know if shelling out for a djm or xone mixer would be worth the extra/if any sound quality. it seems from what i've read above that some people think there is and some don't...so i guess ill just have to go try one out and see for myself T.T

also, is there any way to throw on effects to traktor via plugin..or any other sort?

[keeb]

also, is there any way to throw on effects to traktor via plugin..or any other sort?

Best method I know of is to route the sound from Traktor into Ableton or the like with Soundflower, then out to your soundcard then the mixer. Also, midi sync Traktor and Ableton. Dubspot's DJ Endo has some videos about this on youtube. It's not a perfect solution, but it gets the job done. If you're on a PC I wouldn't bother since it doesn't work nearly as well in my experience, though you may have better luck/a newer system than I tried it on.

[keeb]

If the faders feel like a toy, then you can get replacements like the Innofader.

That's an expensive proposition when the channel faders are the main offenders. 5 innofaders or an equivalent if you want to replace everything, plus you have to take the unit apart to do so which may void your warranty.I'd rather have it nice stock.