Mixing Harmonically ... I never really see it discussed here.

[jshawpro]

Sorry in advance jshawpro since you're looking for advanced opinions.

I must say... never expected these kind of topics around this forum. This all seems a new thing to me. I've had music theory classes as a child and now I kind of play guitar and now how things work around rock and such but to be fair I never thought about danceable music as... well... notes and scales! Of course it's obvious that all works around that but never took the time to think about it. It's pretty interesting to think on a gig harmonically.

Can anyone provide me some blog articles or something? Or maybe keywords to search for?

By the way... how do you practice your ear? I kind of know how major, minor, pentatonic... scales work and sound on a guitar but on danceable music? Kind of a lame and noob question I know. Just trying to find out the best methods.

BOOM BABY .. read away. I'll be glad to share anything I know or have experienced with music or the concepts you read about.

http://www.mixedinkey.com/Book/

Get ready to be blown away ... but harbor your excitement on this because -- a lot people will hop on your thread ... you'll get a notification ... feeling like YES ... someone has good information to share with me on this topic ... BUT ... you open it ... and it reads as follows ...

"THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED".

And you end up with your bubble bursted and you're like ... I just wanted to talk ... ??

I'd be glad to chat with you about it, though!

HAVE FUN, BRO!

[kooper1980]

And check out the blog on here. I just did a search for "harmonic mixing" and it threw up these blog posts. Some are very good reads!

http://www.djtechtools.com/?s=harmonic+mixing

[keeb]

I'll never understand why so many people on this forum feel the need to post inane drivel in threads they don't like for whatever reason as some kind of knee-jerk reaction...

[kooper1980]

I'll never understand why so many people on this forum feel the need to post inane drivel in threads they don't like for whatever reason as some kind of knee-jerk reaction...

Eh?

[Nicky H]

... BUT ... you open it ... and it reads as follows ...

"THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED".

I'll never understand why so many people on this forum feel the need to post inane drivel in threads they don't like for whatever reason as some kind of knee-jerk reaction...

Well one of the main stickies of this forum (it says read me in capital letters) suggests searching first, and it also has links to mixing in key blogs & posts:
http://forum.djtechtools.com/showthread.php?t=3545

[Stereo:Type]

I think some good points have been raised here. Mixing in key can be more or less important dependent on the kind of music you play. For instance, if you play really minimal music that is mostly rhythmical with very little tone, there is far less propensity for clashing between tracks, however, If the kind of music you play has any tonal elements or progression to it (which i personally consider to be nearly everything, even drum sounds play back with prevalent frequencies which ultimately equal tone), then mixing in key is absolutely essential.
I always equate this to the idea of going to see a band perform. If the guitarist played all the songs in one key, and the singer sang them a semitone out, and the bassist played them another three semitones up from that, it would sound like a hideous mess and most likely a lot of people would think 'This sounds like shit, i'm not sticking around to listen to it.' Even if you have little to no intrinsic understanding of harmonic relation, most people can just instinctively feel when something sounds clashing. With that in mind it has always puzzled me that generally DJ's don't seem to be held to a similar kind of standard. I understand that a DJ should be lauded for lots of reasons, like their track selection and ability to read the crowd and so forth, but it still seems like quite a rarity that people are really given credit for finding songs that work so well together that it sounds like they could have been made as one thing.

Someone also mentioned that it's less common for people to think about conflicting drum grooves. This is so on point. Two clashing grooves can completely strip the energy out of what's going on, even if the two tracks sound great harmonically...

There have been plenty of discussions regarding key detection software, but my two pence on it is this. If you can learn to (or naturally) do this by ear, it is the single most effective way of doing it, and a worthwhile endeavor if you're serious about the concept. No key detection software is infallible, because it is not actually 'listening' to the music, it's just analyzing the prevalent frequencies in a waveform, and that in no way means that those frequencies have to equate to the root note of the track (ie: the key). They will most likely form part of the major or minor chord of that key, for instance, a track in C minor/major could have a lot of these notes in it: C - D Flat - E - G, and if the software picks up on any of those occurring frequently, it might label the track as that note being the root key of the track. So, while it might have a harmonic relation to the actual root key, you're going to start mixing between tracks with essentially inaccurate information. Mixed in Key gets so much love, but i think that it's not all it's cracked up to be. It will label things as a fifth out from its actual key (as per what i mentioned above) too much to really be considered accurate. If it labels 5A as being 6A then thats fine when you mix 5 to 5 or 5 to 6, but if you try to mix 6 to 7 (which would be permissible under the theoretical concept) and the reality is that you're actually mixing 5 to 7 then the likelihood is that the mix won't sound very good... MIK are so precious about nobody stealing their 'special' algorithm that they make you connect to the internet to use their product, which i think is quite a big ask on the part of the consumer. It would be more deserved if their software wasn't so frequently inaccurate. Also, modulating key by 5ths is not the only way to move around keys. Mixes with other intervals such as 3rds and 7ths can also sound pleasing (although they'll almost never follow progressions together), and can help stop you from being slaved to playing a track just because the key is right, and not necessarily picking the right tunes for the moment. Invariably though, tracks with little to no tonal content in their intro/outro are the best way of modulating from one key to another...

The one good thing i will say about MIK is that the system of replacing keys with number values is actually quite handy. Especially if you're looking down a list of a lot of tracks. Picking out a number at speed is far quicker than picking out a letter and then potentially a flat or a sharp symbol, especially as the number sticks out starkly from the letters of the track name/artist. If you do need to pick a key detection software, from the results i've seen i've found rekordbox to be more accurate than MIK. I've not tried keyfinder, so can't make any comment as to it's accuracy.

Lastly (and as a shameless plug) If you're interested in the concept of harmonic mixing or want examples of it, it's worth checking this out. It's just under 3 hours and 166 tracks worth of harmonic eargasming goodness.


Thanks for reading my diatribe/essay/novella...

[jshawpro]

Stereo:Type! Thanks a lot! You've touched on some GREAT points! I really respect your opinion on the matter.

[ LOVING THE WEST COAST VIBE OF YOUR MIX EARLY ON .. THIS IS GREAT! ]

I admitted somewhere in the thread earlier, that I should definitely study back up on my musical theory. And I recognize that, that is what it comes down to .. willingness to learn as much as your brain will allow you on the topic. There is no one that can make me believe that a DJ having a truly advanced understanding of MUSIC AND CHORD Theory (as you stated) will not have at the very least a musical intelligence ADVANTAGE over a DJ that does not. That doesn't mean Music Theory DJ is GOD ... But he's armed with what I know is a very powerful weapon. To be added w/ your other skills to make you one bad ass .... MASTER OF ENERGY.

Musical and Chord Theory actually explains (kind of) WHY the music FEELS the way it feels. Why would any DJ trying to be pro ... overlook this. Now I am aware that people naturally will be more or less skilled than one another ... But ... maybe it's my region ... I don't find people coming anywhere close to the energy that I feel in your mix, Stereo:type ... HONESTLY ... I HAVE NOT HAD ANY INCLINATION TO TURN THIS OFF. If it were later in the day it would be LOUDER!

This is great ... and exactly where I'm heading, bro! No offense ... but SURELY this isn't live?? THIS IS SICK! IT'S a journey ... Your mix is such a great example of how it's done, IN MY OPINION.

Insta - follow on your Cloud! Thank you for sharing your input and this F*CKING AMAZING MIX!

;alksdjf a;lkfj!!!!

WOW! DAMN! THAT QUICK SWITCH UP OVER TO THE PRODIGY REMIX GAVE ME THE CHILLS! WHAT A JOURNEY!

If you don't mind me asking? What's your setup?

[jshawpro]

I just noticed the title, on Soundcloud!! Songs in the key of fuck yeah!!! That's awesome!

If you get sec sometime .. Look me up. Based on your taste and what I just read above ... I'd pay you for a review!! I would definitely value your breakdown of one or 2 of my originals! Regardless, much respect! I can tell you work hard! Atleast on the post up there and the mix for sure!

#RESPECT

[R2D2]

I have found this thread interesting tbh I would say you guys are over thinking things this is a prime example of how technology has begun to overwhelm the dj scene. You do not need any charts harmony comes naturally its the basics of mixing music the journey comes from tune selection no chart will do it for you. No hate just bemused at how people analize things that are so simple ?

[Nicky H]

Don't forget Mixed In Key & Rapid Evoulution are only 40% accurate - which in my book equates to 60% waste of time