(Traktor: Multi Function Button) The working list of bad combos and workarounds

[zestoi]

I emulated your set up, by the way, and it works fine so it's probably the delay time or damaged mapping. The messages sent to Traktor are identical to what you explained.

you assigned a panel mode change+fx change to the ON press of one button? i.e: no inverted stuff? i thought the inverted stuff was partly for this exact reason?

if u used the inverted setting then it's not the same at all ofc - it's 2 events in traktor with a very big delay between them, at least 20ms even if you're a very fast button pusher

[DJ MiCL]

you assigned a panel mode change+fx change to the ON press of one button?

Wow, wait a minute there, why on earth would I say that.

I want to make something clear, once again, and again....

Everything I am saying in this thread is based on the assumption that the Pseudo(Frame)-Simultaneity theory stands.


In this regard, it is impossible for a single midi event to change the FX panel mode and set effect.

That is why we need to create an interval in between.

We are past that. Or at least I thought.

One way to manually create the interval was the well known "press the button twice" method.

I didn't like that method. If it so happens that the last time I used the FX unit in Single I had the right FX and the FX was ON, then the 1st push would activate the FX - but who keeps track of that? So, I would have to double tap the button just to be sure - that's... sad....!

So, I was delighted to discover the hidden "Inverted Direct". It gave us the interval we needed, and the button takes care of the "just-to-be-sure-second-event" which is awesome.

Then, you sort of so-so'd it because it didn't fit into your workflow, having a heavily pre-mapped .tsi prepped for the beatmasher. Well of course! I was searching for a "beatmasher-free" method in the first place!

You got to give me full credit here. I am trying my best to tackle individual problems, like, someone wants to change the panel mode and set effect to Gater with one button push. Well, it's done. There is zero flaws in the inverted direct mapping regarding this specific case.

It's your beatmasher set up that's not compatible with this method, not the other way around. And I don't mean that as an insult at all... I want you to be on the side that maintains, "who needs cunning solutions in Traktor anyway! Beatmasher can do it all, and a lot more!!"


Now, back to the emulation thingy.

You mentioned it didn't work even with a delay, implying that (or at least I took it that way) there maybe something else in play here.

The only differences between your set up (with the delay) and an inverted direct button method are:

(1) Delay time. You may have set it to 3ms. My button probably has ten times more delay time.

(2) Your set up uses a Fader Interaction mode to change the FX.

So I checked whether being a Fader Interaction mode could cause the problem in itself. I set up a pad that on touch sends a note (triggers the panel change) and then upon any movement sends a velocity value increased by 1 integer (sets the Fader position to GATER from the one next to it).

This ruled out the possibility that anything needed to receive a 0 value for the whole process to work. The only two messages Traktor received were D4 velocity X and D4 velocity X + 1.

So what's left? It could be that it just needs a longer delay time. I don't like the idea of it but I just have to wait for your test results. And the other remaining possibility is that the fader mapping is somehow corrupt.

Well, I'll look forward to hearing your results!

[zestoi]

Wow, wait a minute there, why on earth would I say that.

i only asked as you said "I emulated your set up, by the way, and it works fine so it's probably the delay time or damaged mapping. The messages sent to Traktor are identical to what you explained." no other reason. was just curious whether it was actually an emulation of what i am sending or something using the inverted control. also i wasn't sending any zero message, so you'd have had to filter your controller output somehow, unless u had it set to toggle mode in the controller itself, in which case it should be able to emulate exactly.

You got to give me full credit here. I am trying my best to tackle individual problems, like, someone wants to change the panel mode and set effect to Gater with one button push. Well, it's done. There is zero flaws in the inverted direct mapping regarding this specific case.

i said it's a great way of solving some issues and not having to use middleware software i just meant that it doesn't solve my specific issue.

and i do think what we've found out is great for users not using middleware software - even if the info is already in the traktorbible which i don't fancy buying if i can only buy a hard copy.

i think the only new thing we've worked out is that the order of commands in the tsi actually *does* matter which is very useful info.

the inverted control trick might not be anything new but i'm sure not everyone knew about it - so yep credit where credit is due and all.

there *is* still a delay ofc, even with changing panel mode and effect, but it's def easier or a user to get used to that small delay rather than having to press twice. that is a very neat solution i reckon.

(1) Delay time. You may have set it to 3ms. My button probably has ten times more delay time.

yep which is what i said. i will try later with more delays in. it *has* to work if the delay is big enough - as then it's just the same as pressing two diff buttons on a controller etc.

So what's left? It could be that it just needs a longer delay time. I don't like the idea of it but I just have to wait for your test results. And the other remaining possibility is that the fader mapping is somehow corrupt.

Well, I'll look forward to hearing your results!

this spurious corruption is a bit of a bugger... not sure why/when it happens. i don't think that's the case here tho as it does work on second press. when it's buggered it's buggered.

i'll def work out the minimum delay time needed and whether i need to send an off/diff message or something to give it a helping hand along the way. some combination perhaps.

[DJ MiCL]

I used MidiTouch so I can send whatever message I want. Identical was an overstatement but I only sent those two messages, and the fader moved.

About the "mapping order matters" thing...

Initially I was excited about the discovery but..... so far it looks like the mapping order matters only when Traktor FAILS to process all the commands. We don't want Traktor to fail to begin with, so, it's sort of a moot point, don't you think? Unless we can think of a positive way to make use of it... Maybe like a last resort thing... When all else fails, do this!

[zestoi]

I used MidiTouch so I can send whatever message I want. Identical was an overstatement but I only sent those two messages, and the fader moved.

ah ok, cool. i haven't heard of that app before

About the "mapping order matters" thing...

Initially I was excited about the discovery but..... so far it looks like the mapping order matters only when Traktor FAILS to process all the commands. We don't want Traktor to fail to begin with, so, it's sort of a moot point, don't you think? Unless we can think of a positive way to make use of it... Maybe like a last resort thing... When all else fails, do this!

agreed, your inverted method means that traktor doesn't fail to send any at all anyway

i think it's becoming obvious now what combinations of controls will result in that failure condition, but it would have been nice for NI to have documented it somewhere maybe that info is in the traktorbible? there potentially seems to be some great info in that book, but i find it odd there's no option to buy a soft copy. to avoid piracy perhaps?

i would have jumped on it a few years ago, but printed books just go out of date too quickly and i much prefer electronic media these days.

maybe an online version is available if you buy it? that wouldn't be so bad - i'd just ignore the printed version.