A disconnect I'm noticing in the culture

[karma]

Some people (like myself) don't buy dj gear because why would i need it? I Dj in a club that has cdj2000s i only take my headphones and usbs to gigs if i had gear it'd be sitting there collecting dust.

[kooper1980]

So what is actually wrong with my buying a S4 and playing out with it? What am I missing by not using CDJ's?

All you are missing is the experience of using cdj's. it's a great experience but not one worth thousands of $ £ or € if you are going to be using digital music. Using cdj's with timecoded CDs, USB sticks or even in HID with traktor makes them VERY expensive controllers. Great if you can afford it but you lose nothing by not having them if you can't afford it of have better things to spend your money on!

[Gallorance]

Doing reseach before buying the original controller would have prevented you buying something that did not work.

Im still new to this so sue me. Everyone makes honest mistakes.

Any Successful business is NOT there to serve their customers, you are far from mistaken it is there so the owners/shareholders make money, Don't be Naive.

I'm sure their feeling on this is that if the remix decks are truly that awesome and are a feature of Traktor Alone that people will buy the supported hardware to unleash the true potential without sacrificing supporting multiple protocols whatever way they see fit e.g. RGB/HID etc.

Serato Do the same thing y'know slot so NI's business model is not a new thing.

That's you're opinion on the rational of running a successful business and really has no bearing on the fact the multiple corporations and markets have different standards and procedures followed by principle. Companies either provide a service or a product and in some market's both. Not to mention making money for share holders and such is only weighed if the company has gone public. This also mean's that just as all company's that are successful is because of profit motive and they will achieve this whatever the means but ultimately is still reliant on the consumer! With out the consumer who will purchase the companies product or service? If the consumer doesn't approve of the companies practices they will find a substitute product and that will put pressure on the company to change there ways. Does it always work? No. But consumers have as much of a voice in the market because they are the factor of demand for a product or service.

I'm not being naive, a free market system is very complex with many factors to it and to claim that every business is not in service for the consumer is a claim that lacks any real data. But what is fact is that the company serves the consumer weather its through products or service. This is not conspiracy! This is one of the main rules that form an economy. Shareholders dont drive profits for the company, consumers do!

Let me give a lesson in economics. Shareholders have very limited power in a company, they vote for a board of directors who make the business decisions. The shareholders are paid dividends on what the company make's in profit because they own part of the company through funding from purchasing stocks. If the consumer disagrees with business practices they have the power to stop purchasing the product which entails lower profits. If the shareholders think the company is not doing good business they can either vote for a new board of directors or sell their stocks. Ultimately shareholders have no bearing on what a company does for business they only put their funding in the company.

Im not trying to put you down but I don't see any market data to back up you're claim unless you are an employee for one of the companies mentioned, and if you really are can you show financial records to prove you're point? You're claim according to education of how an economy works is completely false a successful business exists to serve consumers those are the principles of a free market system which is the confines of what these companies reside in. No consumer = No profits

[keeb]

At least as far as the S4 and the software being locked to that hardware to begin with; I looked at that much more as a public beta test than as NI seeing what they could get away with. Given what I've read about the remix decks, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they're going to be the same. Have patience, friends.

[deevey]

So what is actually wrong with my buying a S4 and playing out with it? What am I missing by not using CDJ's?

Learning how to use industry standard gear which you may need to in the event that:

• Laptop/Controller Breaks or Malfuctions
• Arrive at a venue where there is no room / no easy method of setting up.

Take Graphic artists, they use photoshop because its an industry standard even if Gimp can do some tasks better and its free. A company wont hire you if you don't know the standards why should a club.

IMHO of course - I'm aware things are changing in favor of Controllers being more widely accepted but thing are not quite there yet.

@ Gallorance

I'm not going to quote you but the fact remains, businesses exist to make money in whatever they produce. If more F1's can be sold and the hardware lock sabotages sales of a competitors product then thats the route they will take.

Sure businesses need to serve a purpose, and NI do that pretty well IMHO. Also If people want something different though there is not really that much choice right now that I'm aware of that can provide the same amount of features at that price or that hardware setup - correct me if I'm wrong?

The issues with the hardware lockout will ONLY apply to the people who utilize their software in a way other than designed anyhow - which was to utilize the RGB color pads via HID on their particular controller

As regards the shareholders thing, a company has a responsibility to its shareholders to make profit which was my point, if they aren't seen to make profits as you say a new board could be voted in so they will do their damnest to try to keep the majority of customers happy while locking down as much as possible so users will not even investigate competitors controllers as an option.

I can respect a decision to lock down stuff based on the needs of the many to make it simpler vs the needs of the few who want to dabble - and given that its a pretty cheap controller for the features and software that are included.

And no I don't have any shares.

Out

[kooper1980]

Learning how to use industry standard gear which you may need to in the event that:

• Laptop/Controller Breaks or Malfuctions
• Arrive at a venue where there is no room / no easy method of setting up.

You don't need to own cdj's to know how to use them. Your statement suggests that you can't beatmatch on cdj's unless you own them. This just isn't true at all. You can learn to beatmatch on any other controller and that skill can be transfered to a cdj. If you started your quest to be a dj on turntables (like I did) and learned your skills there then the transition to using cdj's was a very easy one!!

It's not even like learning your way around a cdj is difficult. You have a play button, a cue button and two buttons to skip through tracks. How much time does one require to become accustomed to those simple controls.

As for preparation - first of all a dj who takes a gig without knowing what equipment is available or even what space is available for their own equipment, is just plain unprofessional and doesnt deserve the gig in the first place. Its this mind of sloppy preparation that gives djs a bad name.

[deevey]

You don't need to own cdj's to know how to use them. Your statement suggests that you can't beatmatch on cdj's unless you own them.

It's not even like learning your way around a cdj is difficult. You have a play button, a cue button and two buttons to skip through tracks. How much time does one require to become accustomed to those simple controls.

I agree wholeheartedly, its not rocket science little about DJ'ing is, and I don't necessarily mean everyone (or anyone) should have CDJ's at home, but everyone should be comfortable in using "standard" DJ gear and being able to use it proficiently IMHO.

And for the record, no I don't own Pio's - I probably would buy an Aero for the Rekordbox feature perhaps, I could simply not justify the size or price of a CDJ setup for home.

Learning how to use industry standard gear which you may need to in the event that:

Laptop/Controller Breaks or Malfuctions
Arrive at a venue where there is no room / no easy method of setting up.

What I probably should have said perhaps is:

Shit happens and you'll still be expected to play, and play well on whats provided at the venue - so get comfy.

[Shishdisma]

So what is actually wrong with my buying a S4 and playing out with it? What am I missing by not using CDJ's?

I've never seen a "Kontroller" last more than a year of sustained playing out. CDJ-2000s may cost you approximately 4x as much for a full setup (assuming you already own a high end laptop), but the CDJ-2000 Mk1's are going on 3 years strong. I've played on CDJ-1000 Mk1/2's (with a fresh laser, Jesus knows how long a USB drive will last) that are pushing a decade old.

You may be paying "an absurd amount," or whatever the euphemism of the night for CDJ prices are, but the fact remains that you will without a doubt get at least 5+ years out of your investment, if you don't decide to sell it for most of what you paid for it. With the Kontrol series, you'll get bargain bin components that fall apart in your hands over the course of a year or two of outboard use.

So realistically, if you plan on DJing for any extended period of time, you're literally wasting your time and money by buying an S4 over CDJs. Your Kontroller will wear out and break, and you will have to replace it with another. CDJs very rarely "break," almost never beyond simple repair, and virtually never wear out. Kontrollers get broken and scrapped, CDJs get retired for updated gear.

[vanaema78]

Another one of these CDJ vs Controller threads. Just great.

[MaxOne]

Another one of these CDJ vs Controller threads. Just great.

I agree.

It's like, what is the OP expecting to happen? Why do we have a collective responsibility to promote CDJs?

That's what's in clubs now but it used to be 1210s and everyone said "let's fight to keep vinyl alive, don't use CDJs".

If you came from vinyl you've seen this all before. The future will be what it will be, regardless if we say to every newbie "use CDJs".

The future will shape itself and it's obvious controllers are part of that future which is why Pioneer are making controllers too, for every level (Ergo, Aero, DDJSX)

The truth is CDJs ARE controllers anyway. They control digital files