Forbes Article - "How Hard is DJing?"

[sobi]

No. You didn't.

blah blah blah

barble
blah

Actually, I did. Care to tell me about more personal life experiences that I must have imagined?

[DJ Descendent]

is this discriminating Cotrollerist's?. i now dislike dead mouse. analog is stupid anywy.

"Zimmerman, number six on our list of highest earning DJs, recently criticized several of his peers for “button-pushing” during live shows. With the increase in ease afforded by technologies like Ableton and Virtual DJ, which can be used to queue and sync tracks, Zimmerman claimed several DJ/producers rely on pre-recorded tracks rather than recreating their music during so-called live sets."

[sobi]

is this discriminating Cotrollerist's?. i now dislike dead mouse. analog is stupid anywy.

"Zimmerman, number six on our list of highest earning DJs, recently criticized several of his peers for “button-pushing” during live shows. With the increase in ease afforded by technologies like Ableton and Virtual DJ, which can be used to queue and sync tracks, Zimmerman claimed several DJ/producers rely on pre-recorded tracks rather than recreating their music during so-called live sets."

It's nothing more than telling the truth about himself and others like him... producers, who play all their own music and not much more during their sets.

[squidot]

Actually, I did. Care to tell me about more personal life experiences that I must have imagined?

although i don't agree with djproben calling your life experiences into question, you have to understand that this is strongly tied into muscle memory, which usually takes people far longer than you to learn. i'm not saying it can't be done, but it's extremely rare to find someone who can get that level of control over their mind, muscles, ears, and hardware in such a short period of time, especially if you go back to using turntables. i don't agree that most people can pick it up easily and do it consistently in as little as one day.

let's look at snowboarding. i have a friend who literally learned how to properly snowboard in less than 10 minutes (and not just the falling leaf), where it usually takes someone about 5-10 days worth of boarding to get to that level. for me it took a little longer due to poor mountain conditions most of the time i went. the same day he learned i also took a massive leap in skill since there was a perfect amount of powder on the mountain. so it can be done, and i have seen it but it's not as common as you make it out to be.

[tokenasianguy]

i think you're right to some degree and i'm just saying if you can't show us the goods, then maybe you're being too critical on the idea of mixing and what it takes for most people to get to a level that is consistently good. man, even if you could show me the ultimate skills, i still think it's a bit uncalled for to belittle the work and effort that people put into their passion. and you should know if you are putting in the time you say you are to this artform (i know how you hate it described that way...sorry man).

You're right, maybe I am being too critical. I have a very cynical way of looking at things, but my gripe is about one-genre DJ's who put together a set full of quantized tracks with a 4/4 time signature, and use the sync feature, and talk about how much skill it takes. Back when some of us only played with vinyl (myself included), and had to manually beatmatch an entire set lasting 2-3 hours, THAT took some skill and attention. But these days, with Traktor and the sync feature, I can't help but scoff when DJ's talk about how much skill it takes to mix. I don't even factor "track selection" because every DJ thinks they have the best track selection.

I think DJ's have been trying hard to make themselves relevant, and it seems that when nobody believes them, they just talk louder, trying to convince people that DJ'ing is a legitimate art form...But with articles such as these, it doesn't seem like anyone is buying it. I think DJ's should find another way to make themselves relevant other than trying to convince people it that it takes a lot of skill to mix two tracks together, or that they have amazing track selection and/or mixing skills...but I agree that if you're a one-genre DJ, it must be hard to differentiate yourself...But it must also be hard to stay relevant as a one-genre DJ especially if the scene in your hood dies all of a sudden. Around here there's almost no DJ culture anymore, so I've found my own way to stay relevant, like marketing myself as a music expert who's familiar with all genres and the entire history of music.

i agree that mixing 2 single tech house tracks together is easy within itself, but repeating that consistently 15-20+ times during every live set or practice session is not. and as you say, adding other genres, moods, or bpms into the flow just increases that difficulty. i listen to a fair amount of dj sets and i find it a rare occurrence to hear a technically perfect mix (i'm excluding song selection which is subjective). there are almost always mistakes, even from pro djs who use software. look, i can play 3 guitar or piano chords together easily, but does that make learning either one of those things and writing whole songs with them a cakewalk? i don't believe so and i feel pretty much the same about djing at a high level. at the most basic level they are virtually the same thing...you are taking things people have already created (i.e. songs or chords or notes) and putting them together in a way that speaks to people and is hopefully unique to yourself.

learning the basics of these things is generally easy, but perfecting them takes a lifetime.

And that's what I'm talking about. Mixing two tech house tracks is simple, especially if they're quantized and you use the sync feature, even if you have to do it 15-20 times within a set...But I honestly feel like the true skill in mixing comes from traversing over different genre's, and different BPM ranges, mixing tracks that are not quantized and need to be manually beatmatched.

In terms of DJ sets, how do you quantify "mistakes"? I would assume if a set is programmed in software that it would be flawless. This illustrates one of my gripes about the DJ scene back when I was immersed in it. Since house DJ's far and wide were only known for "flawless mixing" and "track selection", it seemed like people would always critique those elements and would take about "mistakes" in a set...When really, what is a mistake? Isn't that as subjective as "track selection"? Unless of course you're talking about a trainwreck, which is glaringly obvious.

In terms of your "chord" metaphor, do you think if you gave two different DJ's the same list of tracks to play in the same order, that they could make the sets sound distinctly different? Because I'm very skeptical about that, but I'm also inclined to say it doesn't matter that much.

[sobi]

although i don't agree with djproben calling your life experiences into question, you have to understand that this is strongly tied into muscle memory, which usually takes people far longer than you to learn. i'm not saying it can't be done, but it's extremely rare to find someone who can get that level of control over their mind, muscles, ears, and hardware in such a short period of time, especially if you go back to using turntables. i don't agree that most people can pick it up easily and do it consistently in as little as one day.

let's look at snowboarding. i have a friend who literally learned how to properly snowboard in less than 10 minutes (and not just the falling leaf), where it usually takes someone about 5-10 days worth of boarding to get to that level. for me it took a little longer due to poor mountain conditions most of the time i went. the same day he learned i also took a massive leap in skill since there was a perfect amount of powder on the mountain. so it can be done, and i have seen it but it's not as common as you make it out to be.

I think I'm being misunderstood. I'm not trying to say my experience is normal. I was an exception rather than the rule. That being said, I see it as something that can be mastered more or less in a year or two. MASTERED. Compare that to say playing guitar, or any instrument. I just see it as a skill that can be learned to a high level substantially faster than most any other musical hobby.

[tokenasianguy]

As with any other artist forms, the more unique you are in combination with how commercial you could push it, the better.

When you're talking about EDM DJ's where "mixing" and "track selection" are the only elements involved, how "unique" can the experience possibly be?

[tokenasianguy]

Damn, some of these posts seem so cocky. I don't care who you are, what gear or program you have, mixing at a professional level in a way that will keep an audience interested and blown away by your set (& not just cause you dropped the latest chart toppers)REQUIRES YEARS OF EXPIERENCE AND EXPERIMENTATION. I've personally been mixing consistently for over 5 years now and I'm still learning and teaching myself new tricks and technics. It's not about just beat matching or mixing in key or how much effects and loops you can layer on top of each other. To sit back and say, "ok, I've mastered beat matching or phrasing or whatever in this amount of time" is very closed minded.

How do you distinguish "mixing at a professional level" from mixing at an amateur level? Trainwrecking? If not trainwrecking then anything else would be totally ambiguous and subjective.

[tokenasianguy]

Lol at your first comment without knowing a thing about how I mix. Your a very condescending person haha.

You're right, I might be a little condescending, and I tried to distinguish when I wasn't speaking directly towards you...But in all fairness, I don't need to know you or what you mix in order to believe that mixing two tracks together isn't a skill and a half.

[AllDay]

You're right, I might be a little condescending, and I tried to distinguish when I wasn't speaking directly towards you...But in all fairness, I don't need to know you or what you mix in order to believe that mixing two tracks together isn't a skill and a half.

You'd be suprised how many people can't do it very well.