How many of you have an education, was it worth it? Are you working in your "field"

[tokenasianguy]

I don't think there's any hard or fast answer to this.

Sometimes life takes you on a journey, and the best thing you can do is roll with the punches.

If you have nothing else in terms of practical work experience and/or connections, then an education is all you'll have. In terms of my own professional development I've found a lot of value in hearing other peoples stories. I find this to be the single most interesting thing about people, and I'm not just talking about work experience, I'm talking about their background, where they're from, how they got to where they are, what kind of people they met along the way, etc. etc. So if you don't mind me being a little long-winded, I'll share my personal story in the hopes that you might find something of value.

I personally didn't pursue post-secondary education until I was 24, because I was a bit lost, and partying too much, but I finally decided I wanted to study music production and engineering. The problem with that is that all the pioneer's in this city never went to a school like that because they didn't exist. They started as interns and worked their way up, so those schools created a really unrealistic demand on the workforce....Spitting out hundreds of graduates a year, and not having nearly as many available jobs for all the graduates that wanted them.

About mid-way through this program, I was offered the chance to work in the mailroom of what was one of Canada's biggest broadcasting/motion picture production and distribution companies at the time. Surprisingly the registrar at my school told me I should drop out to take that job. He cited "people come to this school primarily to make connections, to meet the people they're going to be working with in the future, and you've already done that, so you'd be a fool to not take this opportunity". The music industry in my city seemed dismal at best, so the decision was easy, and I spent 6 years in that company working my way out of the mail room and into corporate marketing...But here's the kicker, If I got let go after 1 year in the mail room for whatever reason (downsizing possibly?), where would I have been? I would have had 1 year of experience (which barely qualifies as work experience) in an entry-level position, and I would have had no diploma...Although it's worth mentioning that even having a diploma in music production from that private post-secondary institute would have been useless too. So it's a toss up.

The funny thing is that I'm at a point in my life where I've decided to walk away from the corporate office life to give small-business ownership a try. I've pretty much had enough with the office politics, but it's interesting how my life has already taken so many turns by the age of 34. I've worked in a few different industries now (always in Marketing), and now doing something totally different. It's interesting because when you go to school you spend minimum 3-4 years working towards a Diploma or a Degree, and yet you're more than likely not going to spend the rest of your life doing that very thing...So investing 3-4 years and 10's of thousands of dollars seems ridiculous.

Not having an education hasn't been a huge deal for me, but I often wonder how many interviews I would have been called in for if I had a degree.

The world is becoming a competitive place and it seems like everyone has a degree these days, so I think it's important to examine the local climate.

So to answer some of your questions, do I have an education? Not really. I have an incomplete diploma in music production and engineering, and I completed a publicity and public relations certificate to supplement my work experience, but I've been told that the certificate looks like I couldn't make the commitment to get a whole degree. I haven't even picked up my certificate and it has been a year.

Do I think not having a diploma or degree is the preferred route? Not really. I didn't even go through high school technically, I got my GED when I was 21...But if I had to do it all over again, I would have tried to finish high school the right way, AND get a degree.

Do I regret it? Not really. But I consider myself very lucky and very fortunate to have had the opportunities that I had and to have worked for some of the biggest and most reputable companies in the country...But it was a much different climate when I started in the work force 10 years ago. I also know that things could have happened MUCH differently for me, and I could have found myself in the same position, except not only without a formal education, but also without any significant work experience. Some of my old high school friends went down the same path as me, except without the opportunity and/or connections, and they're just bouncing around between grocery store jobs.

I'm not knocking grocery store jobs, because I can tell you honestly that corporate marketing isn't all it's cracked up to be either. I've worked corporate marketing jobs where I got paid less than some jobs that were considered menial. The trade off is that sometimes when you work for a "sought-after" company, like my position in the movie industry, they end up paying really low because they have hundreds of people beating down their door for the same job and are willing to do it for much less.

My parents (who are immigrants) raised me with the perception that office work is something glamorous that everyone should aspire to have...I think I kind of see their logic, because you don't have to break your back like you would in a trade or construction, but there's really stressful factors, like the work politics or the fact that people often try to throw you under the bus...

You should stick to what fits for you, whether it be school, no school, office work or other...And I wouldn't stress about it. No matter who you are, you should get used to wearing a lot of different hats, because we're still living in an unstable economy, and I've been let go and had expired contracts, and if it's taught me one thing, it's to just roll with the punches. I even found myself working in a mail room again because my wife and I were getting desperate after I couldn't find a job for a while.

Edit: I should also add that I think sometimes it boils down to your inherent characteristics or it can seem like the luck of the draw. I've met people that had degrees that didn't seem to get as high profile jobs as me, perhaps because their networking skills or people skills were lacking. Even some of the most successful people right now made the connections they need to while in school and dropped out to work on ideas they were fostering (Mark Zuckerberg?).

[rdej47]

I don't think there's any hard or fast answer to this.

Sometimes life takes you on a journey, and the best thing you can do is roll with the punches.

If you have nothing else in terms of practical work experience and/or connections, then an education is all you'll have. In terms of my own professional development I've found a lot of value in hearing other peoples stories. I find this to be the single most interesting thing about people, and I'm not just talking about work experience, I'm talking about their background, where they're from, how they got to where they are, what kind of people they met along the way, etc. etc. So if you don't mind me being a little long-winded, I'll share my personal story in the hopes that you might find something of value.

I personally didn't pursue post-secondary education until I was 24, because I was a bit lost, and partying too much, but I finally decided I wanted to study music production and engineering. The problem with that is that all the pioneer's in this city never went to a school like that because they didn't exist. They started as interns and worked their way up, so those schools created a really unrealistic demand on the workforce....Spitting out hundreds of graduates a year, and not having nearly as many available jobs for all the graduates that wanted them.

About mid-way through this program, I was offered the chance to work in the mailroom of what was one of Canada's biggest broadcasting/motion picture production and distribution companies at the time. Surprisingly the registrar at my school told me I should drop out to take that job. He cited "people come to this school primarily to make connections, to meet the people they're going to be working with in the future, and you've already done that, so you'd be a fool to not take this opportunity". The music industry in my city seemed dismal at best, so the decision was easy, and I spent 6 years in that company working my way out of the mail room and into corporate marketing...But here's the kicker, If I got let go after 1 year in the mail room for whatever reason (downsizing possibly?), where would I have been? I would have had 1 year of experience (which barely qualifies as work experience) in an entry-level position, and I would have had no diploma...Although it's worth mentioning that even having a diploma in music production from that private post-secondary institute would have been useless too. So it's a toss up.

The funny thing is that I'm at a point in my life where I've decided to walk away from the corporate office life to give small-business ownership a try. I've pretty much had enough with the office politics, but it's interesting how my life has already taken so many turns by the age of 34. I've worked in a few different industries now (always in Marketing), and now doing something totally different. It's interesting because when you go to school you spend minimum 3-4 years working towards a Diploma or a Degree, and yet you're more than likely not going to spend the rest of your life doing that very thing...So investing 3-4 years and 10's of thousands of dollars seems ridiculous.

Not having an education hasn't been a huge deal for me, but I often wonder how many interviews I would have been called in for if I had a degree.

The world is becoming a competitive place and it seems like everyone has a degree these days, so I think it's important to examine the local climate.

So to answer some of your questions, do I have an education? Not really. I have an incomplete diploma in music production and engineering, and I completed a publicity and public relations certificate to supplement my work experience, but I've been told that the certificate looks like I couldn't make the commitment to get a whole degree. I haven't even picked up my certificate and it has been a year.

Do I think not having a diploma or degree is the preferred route? Not really. I didn't even go through high school technically, I got my GED when I was 21...But if I had to do it all over again, I would have tried to finish high school the right way, AND get a degree.

Do I regret it? Not really. But I consider myself very lucky and very fortunate to have had the opportunities that I had and to have worked for some of the biggest and most reputable companies in the country...But it was a much different climate when I started in the work force 10 years ago. I also know that things could have happened MUCH differently for me, and I could have found myself in the same position, except not only without a formal education, but also without any significant work experience. Some of my old high school friends went down the same path as me, except without the opportunity and/or connections, and they're just bouncing around between grocery store jobs.

I'm not knocking grocery store jobs, because I can tell you honestly that corporate marketing isn't all it's cracked up to be either. I've worked corporate marketing jobs where I got paid less than some jobs that were considered menial. The trade off is that sometimes when you work for a "sought-after" company, like my position in the movie industry, they end up paying really low because they have hundreds of people beating down their door for the same job and are willing to do it for much less.

My parents (who are immigrants) raised me with the perception that office work is something glamorous that everyone should aspire to have...I think I kind of see their logic, because you don't have to break your back like you would in a trade or construction, but there's really stressful factors, like the work politics or the fact that people often try to throw you under the bus...

You should stick to what fits for you, whether it be school, no school, office work or other...And I wouldn't stress about it. No matter who you are, you should get used to wearing a lot of different hats, because we're still living in an unstable economy, and I've been let go and had expired contracts, and if it's taught me one thing, it's to just roll with the punches. I even found myself working in a mail room again because my wife and I were getting desperate after I couldn't find a job for a while.

Edit: I should also add that I think sometimes it boils down to your inherent characteristics or it can seem like the luck of the draw. I've met people that had degrees that didn't seem to get as high profile jobs as me, perhaps because their networking skills or people skills were lacking. Even some of the most successful people right now made the connections they need to while in school and dropped out to work on ideas they were fostering (Mark Zuckerberg?).

Well worth the read. It seems like the big take away here is being adaptable. Another question i'd like to raise, is it better to commit to one path or sort of commit and have the famous back up plan (you know the one where you decide you want to do something risky i.e. DJ, play in a band, or act, then people insist you have a back up plan in case things don't work out). I think both paths are valid. If you decide to commit to your passion you can really put in the time and work to be great. Obviously though this is a pretty big risk. You have to treat it like a full time job if you want to be great. Also this gives you a huge advantage over people in school. School is pretty much a full time job for 4 years. That's a 4 year advantage that you have over others.

Now for having a back up plan I think thats great and very smart but I also wonder if it isn't a crutch. You can sort of slack off your dream and be just good instead of great. But I also think having a variety of experiences can you teach more then if you just specialized in one area. For example a producer may have the greatest music but if they don't know how to connect, network, and how "the business" works then they're at a disadvantage compared to someone who has a wider variety of experience.

Hope what i'm saying made sense, ironically i'm supposed to be studying right now.

[16b441khz]

kinda goes with the subject and music related, im actually coming up to a similar assessment task as this guy but i also have to provide a full business proposition :|

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2012/...=Google+Reader

[tokenasianguy]

Well worth the read. It seems like the big take away here is being adaptable. Another question i'd like to raise, is it better to commit to one path or sort of commit and have the famous back up plan (you know the one where you decide you want to do something risky i.e. DJ, play in a band, or act, then people insist you have a back up plan in case things don't work out). I think both paths are valid. If you decide to commit to your passion you can really put in the time and work to be great. Obviously though this is a pretty big risk. You have to treat it like a full time job if you want to be great. Also this gives you a huge advantage over people in school. School is pretty much a full time job for 4 years. That's a 4 year advantage that you have over others.

Now for having a back up plan I think thats great and very smart but I also wonder if it isn't a crutch. You can sort of slack off your dream and be just good instead of great. But I also think having a variety of experiences can you teach more then if you just specialized in one area. For example a producer may have the greatest music but if they don't know how to connect, network, and how "the business" works then they're at a disadvantage compared to someone who has a wider variety of experience.

Hope what i'm saying made sense, ironically i'm supposed to be studying right now.

IMHO, specializing in one area can pigeonhole your career. Especially if you want to work in broadcasting, and your city doesn't happen to have a lot of broadcasting companies. I met a guy that worked in broadcasting in the same building of one of my first jobs, and he was telling me about how he was let go because of the recession in 2009, and didn't get a permanent job in his industry until this year. He even told me about how he worked the night shift in his local grocery store for a while because his family was desperate.

When I made the decision to get into marketing, it was to create work experience that was (as you said) "adaptable", and to some degree it has been. I've worked in Movie distribution, for non-profit film festivals, in telecommunications, etc. For the most part marketing is marketing. If you understand the process and a little bit about your market segment you can figure out a lot of it on the job.

At this point in my life, I think it's better to have a wealth of experience in many different areas, rather than only specializing in one. Take DJ'ing for instance, if it wasn't for my mobile DJ gigs, my wife and I would be in some trouble right now, and as someone on this forum (if you're not doing it already), you already have something you can fall back on.

I think the best avenue is to learn as much as you can from whomever is willing to share, whether it's friends, acquaintances, etc. Keep a sharp mind, and a keen sense of business, and you'd be surprised where opportunities can arise. I've been teaching myself a lot of web marketing and search engine optimization, and it occurred to me that I might actually be able to pitch "web marketing" to businesses that are looking for a web presence. For instance, I have some friends that work in trades, but have no websites and basically wait around for someone to call them for work. I came up with the idea that I can manage their web marketing, and business development, and for every job I get a cut. It's not a serious plan and it's something I'm still mulling over, but it's just an example of how you can come up with ideas when you're not gainfully employed and are forced to think of something. When I was gainfully employed, I thought I'd taken my DJ business as far as I could go. Part of it was that when I got home from work I was too tired to even think about it, so I just let my website sit and wondered why I didn't get any inquiries. Well google favours sites with frequently updated content, and I know this because I've taken the time to read the books and find out, and I'm close to doubling the amount of gigs I had last year, not to mention I've received more inquiries through random internet searches, so I'm a bit surprised at what I've been able to pull out when I had no choice but to make things happen.

[mostapha]

I didn't read any of the responses…and I just deleted 2 huge walls of rambling text that wern't relevant to the question.

I'm close to having 2 degrees from one of the best technical universities in the world……and I'm pretty sure all I'm going to walk away with is an extra 50 pounds of fat, a general hatred of anything I know a lot about, a history of quitting things I love in favor of things that might make money, six figures of debt, and an unhealthy case of depression that will probably lead to an early death.

I'm really not kidding.

If I could go back to when I was 17, I don't think there's a single major decision I'd make the same again.

[FunkyFox]

I'm 3/4 way through my degree and have already held down a job for a year at a fortune 500 company. The field I work in is known for the cashflow it can bring so yes I do work in my degree's field. Then again I haven't graduated yet.

[m2lawren]

I live in Canada I have a business degree and I work inthe field. Its not about forcing students to taking a bunch of classes. The real importance is not memorizing a bunch of defintions but understand the defintions and how they apply in rea life situations. It teaches you disciple, how to think in a business setting, thinking out of the box etc; the list can go on ....and yeah I agree with the above comment, that piece of paper is a trophy!

I think you are thinking way to narrow minded....your forgetting the business side of music! as much as you may think its all about the music...at the end of the day people who take this seriously are trying to make MONEY! which is where marketing and postioning yourself as a brand copme into play. Both very crucial to differentiate yourself from the competition.

Maybe stop focusing on what others have done and concentrate on building your own emperor. Not saying education is a must as I have plenty successful friends that just have a high school education. At the end of the day what do you have to offer? What skills do you have to make people give a sh*t about you and invest their time and money. Just decide to do something worth value or that you are trely interested in and follow through

[Nicky H]

Don't forget the cheap beer in the student union bar.
Very important factor.
+1

[Xonetacular]

Interesting this thread popped back up, I've been trying to figure out what to go back to school for and finish my degree in. Florida makes it insanely difficult to qualify for in state tuition so I've been working full time while I establish residency but should be eligible in january.

To go back and finish my degree in what I started studying would be a waste of time and money, looking at school from the perspective I'm at now is very different from at 17-18 when I first started college. If I go back now it's not to rack up six figures of debt in private school for a degree that doesn't have a great chance at landing me a job or a job that doesn't pay any more than I make now.

I would love to go back and finish an architecture or other design degree, but the amount of time and money it would cost is just not worth for the small number of jobs out there that don't even pay if you somehow manage to get one (and I have one already that wouldn't pay much more if I had a degree).

Really debating if I want to go though engineering school. Also debating if it is worth it to study computer science and if I would like it enough- but there seem to be a lot of jobs and I would probably be good at it. I'm going to teach myself some programming in the meantime and see if I like it.

[rdej47]

Interesting this thread popped back up, I've been trying to figure out what to go back to school for and finish my degree in. Florida makes it insanely difficult to qualify for in state tuition so I've been working full time while I establish residency but should be eligible in january.

To go back and finish my degree in what I started studying would be a waste of time and money, looking at school from the perspective I'm at now is very different from at 17-18 when I first started college. If I go back now it's not to rack up six figures of debt in private school for a degree that doesn't have a great chance at landing me a job or a job that doesn't pay any more than I make now.

I would love to go back and finish an architecture or other design degree, but the amount of time and money it would cost is just not worth for the small number of jobs out there that don't even pay if you somehow manage to get one (and I have one already that wouldn't pay much more if I had a degree).

Really debating if I want to go though engineering school. Also debating if it is worth it to study computer science and if I would like it enough- but there seem to be a lot of jobs and I would probably be good at it. I'm going to teach myself some programming in the meantime and see if I like it.

This to me seems to be the biggest problem, the cost vs. the benefits. As you said if you went to school now all you'd do is rack up debt that you might not be able to pay off and no return on investment if you can't land a job. Degrees use to be a safety net but that is no longer the case. With the money that you'd spend on a degree you could open your own business.

I should say that my university experience is in business and that my opinion is limited to that. To me a degree is nothing but a false perception of value. I know some dumb people who are able to buy degrees or value. As long as they can afford it and do the bare minimum they will get their degree.

All the things that have been worth my while I've learned on my own and not through university. I apologize for my non linear rant i'm really tired and it's throwing my thought process out of whack. For the absurd money that's been spent on university it should be worth every cent. But for the price of a university textbook I can get 10 books from the business section in Chapter and get 10 times the value. One of my business electives will be "Market Research", a 3 month course. I will probably have to buy an expensive textbook, memorize dated and potentially useless information for an exam. Yet this information is readily available to anyone with an internet connection. Google, Facebook, Youtube analytics gives anyone tons of market research. Again my opinion (not saying it's right) only applies to business, I can't speak for other fields/faculties.

I'll close with this last point. Exams to me are a poor reflection of knowledge and character. Exams encourage obedience and punish failure. For example if I have a multiple choice exam in market research and a question asks, "What is the most effective form of market research?" ....we'll say the answer is consumer surveys. I don't have the option to say I disagree, here's why...? If I want to "pass" I have to conform to what the class considers the right answer. Exams punish failure by making the cost of failing high (taking the class over again which means more time and money). In reality failing is essential. Think of how much you've learned through trial and error, and by learning what doesn't work. And when you fail you get to try again, not the case with exams (unless you take the class over again). So when you finish a class your transcript is final, and that's where your knowledge/learning stands. But learning and failing is an on going process and everyday you have the opportunity to fix what isn't working. I wish I could do this argument justice but i'm so tired. Good night.