New controllers, brand

[zestoi]

@sendoushi

The best advice I can give you is to have a use case in mind when you design your controller.

agreed on that. and it's probably not going to be possible to please both ableton live fans as well as traktor type users. including a cross fader would be critical to getting any traktor users tho unless it was looked on as a good controller for just cue points/effects/same decks etc...

edit: i tend to blend using line faders usually - but even i probably wouldnt buy one that didnt have some kind of cross fader if i was looking at it to primarily control traktor and not ableton. for ableton i'd want either at least 8 line faders or none and just use pots. 4 faders is better for traktor ofc.... so he needs to think of those use cases and the potential market first.

[nem0nic]

...it's probably not going to be possible to please both ableton live fans as well as traktor type users...

It was made clear in the initial posts that this controller is for effects and not an "all in one" for a given application. As such, there's no reason why a single controller can't be appropriate for both groups.

And I agree with his approach. Right now, the market is filled with application targeted controllers that try to be everything to everyone. If you have the cash to compete with the likes of Numark, etc then that's a valid strategy. But if your resources are limited, building a more generic device with a wider possible appeal is a smarter approach. It's how Livid and other boutique companies survive.

[zestoi]

It was made clear in the initial posts that this controller is for effects and not an "all in one" for a given application. As such, there's no reason why a single controller can't be appropriate for both groups.

And I agree with his approach. Right now, the market is filled with application targeted controllers that try to be everything to everyone. If you have the cash to compete with the likes of Numark, etc then that's a valid strategy. But if your resources are limited, building a more generic device with a wider possible appeal is a smarter approach. It's how Livid and other boutique companies survive.

true... i think i just got a bit carried away with that first mockup image fro @ToOntown as i wanted to buy it

then having buttons and pads in multiples of 2's probably makes the most sense and also not having sets of 3 pots which would be targetted for eq most likely and the cross fader then.

must admit i'd like something to replace my nanokontrol if it was reasonably small and had at least 8 columns of things. what i would have liked most added to the nanokontrol is more pots.

a completely generic module with say 8 cols and each col having something like 4 pots (or ideally rotaries) and 4 pads would be awesome and cover many bases.... "All Your Base Are Belong To Us

edit: seems i almost described that last image from @ToOntown now i look at it again...

[ToOntown]

true... i think i just got a bit carried away with that first mockup image fro @ToOntown as i wanted to buy it

yeah i admittedly ignored the OP... it was all in good fun. i mock up controllers once a week for shits.

anyway, back on topic... i stand by the concept of the monome-style button pads and encoders (or half knobs half encoders). laid out like this

[zestoi]

yeah i admittedly ignored the OP... it was all in good fun. i mock up controllers once a week for shits.

anyway, back on topic... i stand by the concept of the monome-style button pads and encoders (or half knobs half encoders). laid out like this

i'd buy that if it had twice the rows of pots or encoders... i.e: a controller with just loads of pads+pots i can then map to whatever i feel like...

[nem0nic]

So let me ask - what are the knobs for?

[MrPopinjay]

It's a controller my boy, whatever you want them for!

[VanGogo]

I haven't read all 8 pages of the thread so I hope this hasn't been suggested yet....

I would like to see a companion for the S4. Something with 4 knobs at the top for Fx, 8 buttons (arcade works for me) for cues/sample control, transport controls below that, and made to sit one on either side of the S4 for 1-1 control over all 4 decks.
If you have room a couple of encoders for loop/beatjump control, and a few smaller buttons for loading, switch deck type, etc. , and a pitch fader would make it complete.

To make it useable by more than S4 owners, make a mixer controller that mimics the S4 mixer section and sell as a set also. I know this excludes the Abelton crowd, but it's a niche I would like to see filled.

[zestoi]

I haven't read all 8 pages of the thread so I hope this hasn't been suggested yet....

I would like to see a companion for the S4. Something with 4 knobs at the top for Fx, 8 buttons (arcade works for me) for cues/sample control, transport controls below that, and made to sit one on either side of the S4 for 1-1 control over all 4 decks.
If you have room a couple of encoders for loop/beatjump control, and a few smaller buttons for loading, switch deck type, etc. , and a pitch fader would make it complete.

To make it useable by more than S4 owners, make a mixer controller that mimics the S4 mixer section and sell as a set also. I know this excludes the Abelton crowd, but it's a niche I would like to see filled.

sounds like another use for the generic controller in the image up there ^^^ just probably more pots than you actually need. having the big grid of pads/buttons instead of it separating out a transport section etc just makes it have more uses for more people. i'm guessing cost would prohibit nice multi colored led feedback pads - but a simple led by each button/pad would be enough imho.

[nem0nic]

It's a controller my boy, whatever you want them for!

No, what I'm asking here is what function did toontown have in mind when he put them there.

If this is a utility controller with no "real" purpose, then that's as good a setup as any other. But this thread is about someone who wants to sell controllers retail. And if the controller doesn't fit some kind of use case, it doesn't have much of a chance of actually selling.

The point of designing an effective controller is to lay it out in such a way that users will see it and immediately know what it's for (even if different people see very different purposes). So let's drill down a bit.

In Live, I see an controller that handles clip triggering and effects. The buttons and knobs are separate from each other, and clip triggering and effects are 2 distinct functions - so that makes sense. But while there are 2 groups of eight buttons, there aren't any buttons associated with those knobs. So as a Live user, I'm either forced to use clip trigger buttons to work effects, or I need to map the effects buttons to another controller. Each solution is awkward, because it screws with your workflow.

The same problem exists for Traktor. I can see me using the button section for either 4 groups of 8 cues (for Deck A-D), or cues and auto loops for 2 decks. But again, the knobs are a problem. There's no clear use for them, because they're missing something. You could attempt to solve this by making them push encoders, but that isn't a satisfying solution for everyone, and they're more expensive. And if I were to use the entire controller to control all 4 effects in Traktor, the association between he effect parameter and the button is harder to make.

You might be thinking "this is crazy - I just want a bunch of knobs and buttons to map how I want.". That's normal, but when it comes to making a buy decision it's not how most people really work. If it was, you'd see everyone using the APC40 mapped into Traktor. The APC40 is a bunch of buttons and knobs, is well built, and has a TON of MIDI feedback. But if you take a look at ANY mapping into Traktor and it's a hot mess. I see people with stickers or tape all over just to tell them where shit is. If any OTHER user came up to that APC40 and it wasn't labeled, they wouldn't know how to make it work without a lot of trial and error.

A good controller layout will be intuitive even if it isn't labeled. You'll be able to look at it and understand what's supposed to be happening. It will IMPLY a workflow.

THAT was the point of asking what the knobs are for.