A history of violence (upgrading to TSP andbeatgridding without a decent result)

[luca78nero]

Hi to everyone (yes I know, I tried to gather attention with the title ).

Before I start I wanted to say that I watched the video on beatgridding done by Ean Golden and that I checked as much discussions as possible but without getting an answer to my problems. There are some discussions which get close to the point but I do not get my answers anyway. So i decided to start my own thread hoping that I will get more attention and help than I got on the NI forum.

Well, it all started when I upgraded one month ago from Traktor Scratch (TS from now on) to Traktor Scratch Pro (TSP from now on) ...i use both vinyls and cds depending on where I play. The software version is 1.2.2.
I have to say that I never ever had problems with beatgridding with TS, to the point that I never ever had to manually beatgrid.

I spent this month (not the whole time ;-) ) in configurating my midi controls (I use also an akai LPD8 for loops and effects) without caring about the tracks too much, since I took for granted that importing perfect automatically beatgridded playlists from TS would result in having perfect beatgrids also in TSP. Man,I couldn't be more wrong.

Not only the beatgrids are not set, but I find it impossible to manually beatgrid them, because if I follow step by step what Ean says in his video, it results to have the first 4-5 beats in line and then the track starts drifting and then is ok again (later on in the track) and then starts drifting again, even the other way. DRIFTING! This is a word I learnt yesterday. I readthat my problem could be related to vinyl drift since the tracks I am having problems with are eighties/italo disco tracks (although i still did not check the "new" tracks - electro and house). OK.It seems impossible to correctly beatgrid some old tracks. Fine.

But then I have a few questions:

- why did it perfectly work in TS, without any manual fine tuning???
- why if I open TS (yes I still have it installed fiuuuuuuu!) and copy paste the BPM on TSP it still does not work?
- if the cause is just a minor vinyl drift, why the beatgrids, set with the correct BPM rate copied from TS, start drifting noticeably (1/3 of a beat) after only 4-5 beats?? and anyway, where was the drift in TS?

I read around but I did not find any answers to these questions.

Then two days ago, I realised that the tracks which are in the playlists imported from TS do have already a GRID CUE POINT (like the one shown and stored on the first beat by Ean in his video). The ones which have beatgrid problems also have a grid cue point set far from the beat. Now, given that I never ever set that grid cue point, if I follow Ean's video suggestions the problem stays. The first beats get aligned but after a while the beatgrid moves and then goes back in and then moves again, etc.ect.
What I found out, and I found it very interesting because it made me feel closer to the solution, is that if I delete that grid cue point which I found after the playlist import in TSP and of which there was no trace in the same tracks stored in TS, the beatgrid gets "magically" on the right place, without any manual intervention (basically like it did in TS).

Although I knew I would have to cancel all the "false grid cue points" in all the tracks which are not working (at least the "vinyl era hits", so more than 1500), I felt close to the solution, because I finally saw a correct beatgrid (by doing nothing) after days of trials. Again, I could not be more wrong, because even if the the beatgrids seem allright and locked on some tracks where I manually cancelled the "false grid cue point", I still cannot sync the two tracks... even I put the BPM rate equal on two tracks, the beat are synched for a few seconds and then start drifting heavily again.

For now, I really cannot see another solution than using the "good old TS", because I have a few sets coming up and even if I would go beatmatch by "ear" I could still not relay on the BPM count on TSP for the above explained reasons.

Help, anyone?

Luca

p.s. for all the rest TSP seems a freakin' good piece of software, although I did not start yet to use it professionally

thanks for your time

[Curious People]

I had the same problem - then I turned off "set beat grid when detecting BPM" in the settings then all was fine.

[luca78nero]

first of all thanks for the answer. I will try as soon as i get home (I'm at work now )... and I so hope it is going to work!

[luca78nero]

and checking out your website, seems like you had the same problem because you play vintage music as well.... checking out the "lover in a colder climate mix"! but do not want to go off topic, at least not before I solved the problem

[DvlsAdvct]

Go wtih what Curious People said as a start. Unfortunately it means you're doing to have to remove all of those "fake" grid points.

You're going to need to clarify your clock settings as well. Make sure it's set to Auto, not Manual or Internal when you're mixing like this.

Pretty much, to get a solid sync going, make sure your tempo is spot on, your grid is set accurately, your tempo is locked and your clock setting is at Auto. If it still doesn't work after this point then we try other things.

[Curious People]

and checking out your website, seems like you had the same problem because you play vintage music as well.... checking out the "lover in a colder climate mix"! but do not want to go off topic, at least not before I solved the problem

Yeah - I tried to set the beat grid but then found out Traktor does a good job at it - yes it does go out on some parts of most tracks but that's also the case with "real records" so I know how to deal with it!

[luca78nero]

Go wtih what Curious People said as a start. Unfortunately it means you're doing to have to remove all of those "fake" grid points.

You're going to need to clarify your clock settings as well. Make sure it's set to Auto, not Manual or Internal when you're mixing like this.

Pretty much, to get a solid sync going, make sure your tempo is spot on, your grid is set accurately, your tempo is locked and your clock setting is at Auto. If it still doesn't work after this point then we try other things.

I'll be home in two hours, and then i have another hour to try. I'll give you a feedback.

By the way, does it make a difference if I do these operations with the internal sound card? I mean, is there any way in which the absence of the Audio8DJ soundcard (which i obviously use during djsets, but not when i am at home sitting in front om my computer) can influence the bpm detection or beatgrids?

Thanks

[DvlsAdvct]

It won't influence the BPM detection or beatgrids but it will influence the way it sounds.

[dodge]

I'm sure you are doing this if you watched the video, but just to make sure, you are using the metronome right? My pal was trying to beat grid all his shit by eye and couldn't understand why he couldn't get it tight enough. The ear is by far a better reference than the eye (you're working with sound so that's obvious).
I'm on TSP too, before that I was rocking final scratch so didn't experience anything in between. The only reason I can think TSP is different grid wise to any other versions is because it is a totally new restructured software, it states this in the manual. It could have something to do with it reads the waveforms in a different manor or some shit like that. Have you downloaded the latest version from the NI website? I might be completely wrong here and just tripping (or just using tracks that are easier for Traktor to grid automatically by coincidence) but I found that since the latest update I could swear the auto beat gridding is a lot tighter off the bat then it was before.
Any tracks that are either played by a live band or recorded from a turntable are going to drift, you are aware of this now, but if you are desperate to beat grid them you are unfortunately going to have to stick them in ableton, warp them, then reimport back into Traktor. Bit of a bitch but I've had to do it on numerous tracks.

[luca78nero]

well well well, I just did what Curious People advised, unflagged set the beat grid when detecting bpm and things seem to be much much much better. not perfect, but the beatgrid is more or less on the f**kin' beat and not half the way like before. I also (as read somewhere else) modified the bpm detection range according to my music (100 to 140) and not like it was by default (70 to 190 :eek....

so that's all for now, I obviously did not check all the tracks (did not have time). Will try to make a mix with my old italo disco tracks tomorrow or thursday to have a more or less final verdict on the issue. I'll keep you posted!

thank you!