CDJs vs. Vinyl?

[mpetersen3]

hey I think you should bring up the fact that you are using a generator and power also, I power my sets by simultaneously riding a bicycle and using the laptop battery, my mixes sound like shit, but I'm legit.

[stringerhye]

Totally, I want to learn. It's just the investment is so high for something like that. Where can you rent CDJs?

I've been practicing on traktor with my x-session pro without using sync and I think I have it down. Depends on if he wants no laptops at all. Or if they allow serato. I can do it pretty well with the help of visual cues.

[DvlsAdvct]

hey I think you should bring up the fact that you are using a generator and power also, I power my sets by simultaneously riding a bicycle and using the laptop battery, my mixes sound like shit, but I'm legit.

Dude, you ride a bicycle? I run around a giant hamster wheel. The rhythm of my steps is the beat and my manic screams of pain is the melody.

[mmauve]

Again, $0.02:

Would the same thing be said to a CD DJ? They show up and the CD deck jams, so they better have some vinyl on backup.

No because the industry has shifted enough to an extent to make purchasing vinyl pressings not only difficult, but expensive at $15 per cut. If you mean a time code rig on 12" as a back up, then that's different, and I would consider it a wise idea in that case if you really want to play it safe either way. But in all honesty, never in my years has a CDJ jammed, and that's why they're widely accepted and encouraged. Chances are if it skipped - it was the burn job, the CD quality, or damage to the CD. I'm not saying they never ever fail, but considering they're the core of any club setup, they go to great length to test them, have them cleaned, and undergo maintenance regularly.

Being able to spin on CDs or vinyl is a great thing, but should it be necessary to be called a DJ? Should spinning on vinyl be our standard? Should spinning tape decks? Should being able to spin without pitch faders, or direct drive, or whatever, be the standard?

Yes, I believe so. If you are unable to perform basic functions without the aid of a program, all that makes you is a fluent user of that program. Knowing only one medium - the one which makes your job the easiest at that - is crippling to a DJ specifically. It has nothing to do with "keeping it old school" or showing that promoter where he can shove it, we're talking foundation level skills to make yourself a valued and reliable asset at any gig in a utilitarian sense as well as expanding your experience out. I consider it the same as accumulating job experience. Again, it will only help you in the long run to keep your game sharp and well versed.

And it is still a completely different discussion. Cause people did that. ANd we have let it evolve since then. How many people are standing up saying "Well, you better know how to DJ without relying on a time readout on your CD player"? These are ALL crutches that we have adapted to. Hell, even the CDJ-1000's will give you a basic wave form readout. So why is that less of a crutch than an advanced wave form?

The time read out existed before a CDJ, they were called 12" record grooves, and they worked really well. Knowing when a track is going to end has never been a crutch, it's been a fundamental knowledge. The CDJ-1000 provides no more on a visible level than a record cut did - yes even waveform (though both mediums were very limited), and as a matter of fact on a CDJ its fairly crappy, because that's a dot matrix resolution readout. Regardless it serves its basic purpose in letting you know when the phases come in and out, just like a record groove did. I don't call any of these things crutches, the bare basics simply shifted to a bare level digital medium, and they existed well before it.

Record a video of your mix, show what you're doing.

I agree, this is a great idea actually. Hell, with anyone really. Create a youtube channel, and print the link on the label of your CD promos. It looks good too if people subscribe to it, the more people interested, the more interested the promoter. It also gives a good insight as to how busy you are while using your medium, and will drive your point home more than words will.

[stringerhye]

I'm in film school and it's very similar. We're learning how to use film cameras, even though in all likelihood we'll never actually use them in most of our student films. It is essential to know where it came from.

[mmauve]

That's really cool actually

[DvlsAdvct]

Totally just $0.02 from here on out. We can all have civil discussions

No because the industry has shifted enough to an extent to make purchasing vinyl pressings not only difficult, but expensive at $15 per cut. If you mean a time code rig on 12" as a back up, then that's different, and I would consider it a wise idea in that case if you really want to play it safe either way. But in all honesty, never in my years has a CDJ jammed, and that's why they're widely accepted and encouraged. Chances are if it skipped - it was the burn job, the CD quality, or damage to the CD. I'm not saying they never ever fail, but considering they're the core of any club setup, they go to great length to test them, have them cleaned, and undergo maintenance regularly.

Now I know I've not spun in nice places, well, ever. But I can tell you that I have never ever spun in a place that tested, cleaned or maintained their equipment. I can't imagine many starting DJs working in places like the HUGE clubs, but I know for a fact that I have had CDs jam in decks and we need to kill the music to unjam it. Granted, I've spun in some shit holes, so take that as you may

Yes, I believe so. If you are unable to perform basic functions without the aid of a program, all that makes you is a fluent user of that program. Knowing only one medium - the one which makes your job the easiest at that - is crippling to a DJ specifically. It has nothing to do with "keeping it old school" or showing that promoter where he can shove it, we're talking foundation level skills to make yourself a valued and reliable asset at any gig in a utilitarian sense as well as expanding your experience out. I consider it the same as accumulating job experience. Again, it will only help you in the long run to keep your game sharp and well versed.

I'm not arguing that it is a great thing to know. In fact, I said that I agree with that. But if I can sit on my laptop and completely rock a crowd, who cares how I do it? Really. If you put three amazing DJs in a room, one who can only spin on vinyl, one who can only spin on CDs and one who can only spin on a laptop, I think the one who can spin on a laptop is going to get the most shit for not being well versed. That's my issue with this argument. It won't matter if that laptop DJ is a better DJ technically, or if they can mix better. And them sitting and learning vinyl or CDs won't make them better, it will just make them think differently.

The time read out existed before a CDJ, they were called 12" record grooves, and they worked really well. Knowing when a track is going to end has never been a crutch, it's been a fundamental knowledge. The CDJ-1000 provides no more on a visible level than a record cut did - yes even waveform (though both mediums were very limited), and as a matter of fact on a CDJ its fairly crappy, because that's a dot matrix resolution readout. Regardless it serves its basic purpose in letting you know when the phases come in and out, just like a record groove did. I don't call any of these things crutches, the bare basics simply shifted to a bare level digital medium, and they existed well before it.

Record grooves are VERY different from time readout, but they are still just another form of the waveform. I'm sure turntablists can count off sections based on the rotation of the grooves. Now, obviously, this is not a perferct A/B comparison, and I'm not positing that a reading a record groove is as easy as reading a wave form. My point, though, is that it sounds like you're saying that if it's hard it's more legit. If it's easy it's a crutch. CDJs are more legit because their dot matrix readout isn't detailed, but laptops use a crutch because it is. What happens when CDJs get detailed wave form readouts? Is this argument moot? If so, in my opinion, it's a silly argument.

I agree, this is a great idea actually. Hell, with anyone really. Create a youtube channel, and print the link on the label of your CD promos. It looks good too if people subscribe to it, the more people interested, the more interested the promoter. It also gives a good insight as to how busy you are while using your medium, and will drive your point home more than words will.

YAY! We agree

Once again, no offense meant to anyone specifically. I like discussions like this with people who disagree and can stay civil, so yeah. Even if we just agree to disagree, it's nice to talk about something with smart people on the internet.

[mmauve]

Totally just $0.02 from here on out. We can all have civil discussions

w00t

Granted, I've spun in some shit holes, so take that as you may

We've all been there I would think haha.

I think the one who can spin on a laptop is going to get the most shit for not being well versed. That's my issue with this argument

Hey, totally agree, that's why I advocate learning the trade with/without a program. Nothing gives shit talkers a kick to the dick by not only doing something different by preference, but also being able to do their job while you're at it.

Record grooves are VERY different from time readout

I wouldn't really connote record grooves with time readout, that's more associated with the tone arm position.

My point, though, is that it sounds like you're saying that if it's hard it's more legit.

Absolutely not, as a matter of fact, I hate that shit. As my prior posts suggest, it's not about "keeping it real", or being legit, it's about expanding your experience out to be a more universal and seasoned DJ. I'm all about encouraging people to refine themselves to break that mold that laptop DJ's and program users don't know shit lol.

What happens when CDJs get detailed wave form readouts?

Already has, the CDJ-2000. But damn, if anyone wants plop down $4000 for a pair, they deserve it to say the least lmao.

I like discussions like this with people who disagree and can stay civil, so yeah. Even if we just agree to disagree, it's nice to talk about something with smart people on the internet.

[DvlsAdvct]

Absolutely not, as a matter of fact, I hate that shit. As my prior posts suggest, it's not about "keeping it real", or being legit, it's about expanding your experience out to be a more universal and seasoned DJ. I'm all about encouraging people to refine themselves to break that mold that laptop DJ's and program users don't know shit lol.

Unfortunately, cause my job blows, I won't be able to see that pic until I get home. I am anticipating lols.

Overall I think we have an understanding. This is where our discussion deviates, and what I think the crux of the situation is.

I spun on CDs as a resident at a small club in Manhattan for a year and a half. I beatmatched, mixed, did everything. Then I decided it was easier to carry a backpack with my DJ gear than almost 1000 CDs with me. So I moved to my laptop. Suddenly I wasn't a DJ anymore to some people. It didn't matter what I was doing before, it just mattered what I was doing then.

The only way we're going to get ourselves out of this stigma is by proving that laptop DJs not only can be, but have to be, talented and disciplined, just as much as turntable DJs and CD DJs (well, moreso than CD DJs, in my opinion). But what good does it do to go out and say "Well, I can spin on this antiquated method that will soon be pointless, so that means I'm a more legit laptop DJ"?

It's one thing to learn it, understand it, but it's another to be required to use it to prove your skill. You might need to learn how to develop film in a dark room, but if you're trying to get a photographer gig they are going to want to see your best work. And that's what they are going to expect.

This is the same exact thing. Learning vinyl might make one a better DJ (and I think CDs will add nothing) but why would a promoter want you to spin in a way that isn't your preferred method, when you might not be as good? Seriously, it boggles my mind.

[Karlos Santos]

I run around a giant hamster wheel. The rhythm of my steps is the beat and my manic screams of pain is the melody.

I havent read any of this thread , i just want to know where i can get an MP3 of that recording.

Id like to make a Fidget Step Dub & Bass version of it.