Harmonic mixing with Traktor's Key?

[photojojo]

after playing around in the serato forums, i think i am on the darkside. You know what'm sayin.

lol :d

[sarasin]

"Its a hardknock life....for us.....its a .........."

[Camelot]

This just occured to me the other day and I was wondering if anyone with a bit of music theory knowledge could help me out... I use the Camelot's system to code the key of my tracks so would it be possible to use Traktor's "Key" function to adjust the key of tracks that usually wouldn't go together so that they would?

For example, 11B is A Major and 1B is B Major. Could I set the key of the 11B track to +2.00 to make them both 1B? (My reasoning here is that the key goes up to 12, so I'm guessing that that is one octaves worth, hence jumping up only 2.00 would move me up from A to A sharp then to B). Does this work?

Each point around the Camelot Wheel (adjacent keycodes) is NOT equal to a piano keyboard "semitone" (adjacent keyboard keys). Adjacent keyboard keys cannot be played in harmony. The Camelot Wheel is designed so that adjacent keycodes WILL be in harmony.

Shifting from A-Major (11B) to B-Major (1B) is actually a shift of TWO semitones that just happen to be two keycodes apart. Shifts of just one semitone, such as from A-Major to A-Sharp Major (B-Flat Major) require moving from 11B to 6B, which are seven keycodes apart. Go up (clockwise) another seven keycodes, from A-Sharp/B-Flat Major (6B) to B-Major (1B), and you will have shifted TWO semitones from A-Major. The cumulative effect of going up 7 keycodes (11B to 6B), then going up another 7 keycodes (6B to 1B), is actually going up 14 keycodes. It appears to be going up only two keycodes because of the circular nature of the Camelot Wheel.

For more details, please visit http://www.camelotsound.com/Advanced.aspx.

Hope this helps!

[djproben]

Shifting from A-Major (11B) to B-Major (1B) is actually a shift of TWO semitones that just happen to be two keycodes apart. Shifts of just one semitone, such as from A-Major to A-Sharp Major (B-Flat Major) require moving from 11B to 6B, which are seven keycodes apart. Go up (clockwise) another seven keycodes, from A-Sharp/B-Flat Major (6B) to B-Major (1B), and you will have shifted TWO semitones from A-Major. The cumulative effect of going up 7 keycodes (11B to 6B), then going up another 7 keycodes (6B to 1B), is actually going up 14 keycodes. It appears to be going up only two keycodes because of the circular nature of the Camelot Wheel.

For more details, please visit http://www.camelotsound.com/Advanced.aspx.

Hope this helps!

I'm not sure it does! hehe... for those of us with minimal musical knowledge who use the Camelot wheel, how does that correspond to the key knob in traktor? If I turn the key +1 or -1, how many steps am I moving around the Camelot wheel? In general the rules I follow, which I think are consistent with what you're saying, is to try to mix +/- 1 or 2 or 7 on the camelot wheel, and not to shift major/minor unless staying in the same number. So a track that is 1A can mix harmonically into 1A, 2A, 3A, 11A, 12A, 8A, 6A, or 1B, with steps forward lifting energy and steps backward reducing it. But this is just a really vague guideline and I only have a foggy sense of how it relates to playing keys on a piano....

[Camelot]

"If I turn the key +1 or -1, how many steps am I moving around the Camelot wheel?" Turning it +1 moves you up seven (clockwise) keycodes, as in moving from A-Flat Minor (1A) to A-Minor (8A). Turning it -1 moves you down 7 keycodes, as in moving from A-Minor (8A) to A-Flat Minor (1A).

A track that is in 1A can mix in perfect harmony with others tracks in 12A, 1A, 2A and 1B. ("Reasonable harmony" mixes are possible from 1A into 12B and 2B, but results are not nearly as good.)

"Modulation mixes" produce "energy boost" transitions from mixing up 7 keycodes (one semitone) to 2 keycodes (two semitones), but these are NOT true harmonic mixes because melodic segments must never be beatmixed together. Transitions should start with percussion ("free beats") segments to establish your beatmix, because they are musically neutral. Transition must be completed before beatmixing melodies to avoid disharmony.

[wasapa]

"If I turn the key +1 or -1, how many steps am I moving around the Camelot wheel?" Turning it +1 moves you up seven (clockwise) keycodes, as in moving from A-Flat Minor (1A) to A-Minor (8A). Turning it -1 moves you down 7 keycodes, as in moving from A-Minor (8A) to A-Flat Minor (1A).

A track that is in 1A can mix in perfect harmony with others tracks in 12A, 1A, 2A and 1B. ("Reasonable harmony" mixes are possible from 1A into 12B and 2B, but results are not nearly as good.)

"Modulation mixes" produce "energy boost" transitions from mixing up 7 keycodes (one semitone) to 2 keycodes (two semitones), but these are NOT true harmonic mixes because melodic segments must never be beatmixed together. Transitions should start with percussion ("free beats") segments to establish your beatmix, because they are musically neutral. Transition must be completed before beatmixing melodies to avoid disharmony.

do u have a newsletter i can subscribe to?

[djproben]

Thank you - that was extremely helpful and lucid. So if I am turning the key knob and the song starts at 12A -- +1 on the knob takes it to 7A; +2 on the knob takes it to 2A, and +3 on the knob takes it to 9A?

[Camelot]

Thank you - that was extremely helpful and lucid. So if I am turning the key knob and the song starts at 12A -- +1 on the knob takes it to 7A; +2 on the knob takes it to 2A, and +3 on the knob takes it to 9A?

That's it!

Sorry, but we do not offer any newsletters, per se, although you may order our printed keys results database, or subscribe to our monthly key update service: http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/KeyResultsDatabase.aspx

We also are building an online database (http://camelotsound.com), and can offer free trial memberships if you email camelot@gte.net. Such a deal!

[fellis]

Each point around the Camelot Wheel (adjacent keycodes) is NOT equal to a piano keyboard "semitone" (adjacent keyboard keys). Adjacent keyboard keys cannot be played in harmony. The Camelot Wheel is designed so that adjacent keycodes WILL be in harmony.

Shifting from A-Major (11B) to B-Major (1B) is actually a shift of TWO semitones that just happen to be two keycodes apart. Shifts of just one semitone, such as from A-Major to A-Sharp Major (B-Flat Major) require moving from 11B to 6B, which are seven keycodes apart. Go up (clockwise) another seven keycodes, from A-Sharp/B-Flat Major (6B) to B-Major (1B), and you will have shifted TWO semitones from A-Major. The cumulative effect of going up 7 keycodes (11B to 6B), then going up another 7 keycodes (6B to 1B), is actually going up 14 keycodes. It appears to be going up only two keycodes because of the circular nature of the Camelot Wheel.

Okay I understand this but think I might be getting confused about what a semi-tone is. My understanding is that the 12 steps of Traktor's key knob are each equal to the interval between the 12 keys on a keyboard between 2 octaves and these intervals are called semi-tones. For example from A Flat to B is 3 semi-tones. Am I correct?

Secondly I would have thought that by shifting the key knob up 14 places is the same as shifting it up 2 since 14 is just one octave plus 2 semitones hence would still be in the same key.

Thirdly, does a key of A Major mean that the root note is A? If it is, then you can use the keyboard layout to compare the differences between two keys and work out how much you need to change the track to match you second track. If it is not, then what do you use as a way of comparing different keys?

[photojojo]

I like it when business owners pop in on forums and get active in on conversations. Makes me glad I chose MIK.